BBI Politics, objectively

[Clemens]

wasn't this capped to a time period in the current constitution after which the allocation will be reviewed? do we need a referendum when it is well catered for in the current constitution

Will the inequalities be on hold awaiting for the lapse of time period? Laws are made for man, and not the other way around.

 

[Mr Black]

1. It does not address any of ordinary Kenyans problems, on the ground what needs major corrective surgery is the Economy, Healthcare, education and the Police

You talk of Mt. Kenya getting more constituencies, trust me we do not need them, we need a Cancer Centre and a national referral hospital not more MPs

2. Inclusion BBI style is a disaster, we cannot go back to having a President with top positions to dish out (PM, DPMs, CS slots for sitting MPs) and consolidate incredible political power, we are courting disaster with that new-look executive

3. We need fewer constituencies or maintain the current ones, there is no value in having more, and please do not mention more CDF getting to the ground because that money shouldn't even be in MPs custody, CDF is nothing but a cash cow for MPs

4. Ward Fund is nonsense, the county assembly should be able to oversee fair governance by the county governments with each ward benefitting without some fund to guarantee it

5. Who knows if 35% is sufficient to run counties? What if it is excessive? I say let us cost devolved functions and send money based on need not just throwing figures around, it is a proper dumb move.

6. The absolute disaster that awaits us after BBI is government machinery being used to amend the Constitution, a Raila Odinga or Mudavadi or Joho adminstration will launch another initiative that favours their people the same way BBI purportedly favours Central Kenya, at some point we will have our version of Pombe and senseless amendments will be floated, finally someone will propose abolishing of term limits and insert a "President for life" clause, with BBI having granted them unprecedented political power it will be a slumdunk and we will have gone back to dictatorship, is that your wish? Is that the nation you want your grandchildren to inherit?

BBI is not good for Kenya

 

[bigDog]

It might be a good idea , but so far I have not managed to understand why we need to rush it . Our biggest problem is corruption and not how much each constituency gets .We tackle corruption and we will have tackled half of our economic challenges .
Even those we claim get more money , they have done nothing with it .Proving more money does not equate to more development .

Why should we kick the can down the road? Why not address those injustices now? Why should kids fall out of school because they are poor and come from the wrong region? Take allocation of bursary funds and tell me it's fair! Tell me we should pause childrens education to wait a "little longer".

Each constituency to get Sh137.4m

Each of the 290 elected MPs is set to receive a flat figure of Sh137.4 million.

www.businessdailyafrica.com

 

[The.Black.Templar]

Will the inequalities be on hold awaiting for the lapse of time period? Laws are made for man, and not the other way around.

What inequalities are these, let us go back to your example

I can give you an example, a factory worker in Athi river, machakos county earning 18k is considered richer than a pastoralist in Marsabit County who owns 200 camels, 400 heads of cattle, and 3000 goats/sheep. While his salary and spending is taxed and goes directly to the consolidated fund which shall be shared by all counties in the republic, the pastoralist on the other hand only pays market cess(rarely) when he sells his livestock 50 bob for a goat, a 100 for a cattle and 200 for the camel which is retained by his county.
When it comes to gains from the state funding: the pastoralist gets the cream. His ward has 24 thousand residents, to the factory workers 84 thousands, the pastoralist get an additional equalisation fund up and above that of the factory worker; this is because the factory worker lives in a 'rich' county with tarmac, piped water, and electricity.

Bursary allocation in Athi river is 5000 from the county and 7000 from NG-CDF, while the pastoralist gets 15,000 from the county and 24 thousand from the NG-CDF.

Does marsabit have a factory like Athiriver that employs the pastoralist and thus give him the opportunity to also contribute to the national tax fund? the pastoralist is only make due with the opportunities that were dealt to him. If there was a factory he would also contribute same taxes as the man in Athi river.

Would you go to marsabit and find a factory there to work in? if you were in Marsabit what would you do so that would bring you upto par with the factory worker in Athi River? probably not much

 

[bigDog]

There you go again, being tribal and stuff, can't you talk about politics without going back to your tribal cacoon? In that same tongue are you also saying that you are uncomfortable because kikuyus are not well represented?

So it's tribal when I talk about my own interests? What is wrong with being a Kikuyu? Why are other ethnic groups "allowed to be tribes" but it's a taboo to be Kikuyus and push for own interests?

 

[bigDog]

Question: Are you okay with the top heavy bureaucratic government that BBI seeks to create. With leaders being imposed on the citizenry in a supposedly democratic country?

I don't like top heavy government, but if it makes it possible to address issues that I care about, so be it.

Who is imposing is imposing leaders on you?

 

[bigDog]

But anyway just to also contribute to the discussion, if there was any goodwill most of those changes do not require constitutional ammendments, a tax break only requires parliament to do its thing,

Why do we need a youth commission while we have a whole ferking ministry for the youth?

Kama ni helb loan even that one does not need any constitutional ammendment

We are basically being lied to that it is good for us and those good things can be done without bbi.

How many times have you heard governors threaten to shut down their counties because 15 percent is not available, kama hio kidogo haiko where will 35percent come from??

Have you read the document? Tuanze hapo.

 

[Othello]

Bursary is one of the dumb reasons to justify increase in constituencies. When I was in sch, students from quite a well up family used to receive quite a huge amount(10k per student), yet those who needed it most never got. Just the other day, my friend told me his brother has never paid a coin in the university. In fact, he asked for a refund after graduation, courtesy of CDF bursary. And the only reason for that is because they know someone in CDF office. Accountability is the solution, not increasing constituencies.
Again, the more you give free money the more the people receiving sink to poverty. I was not born with much but I have been observant enough. Free things create a lazy society. Bursary should go to the most unfortunate....like the orphans. Sionin vile jibaba la miraba minne, mikono miwili na miguu miwili linaenda kubeg for money to educate children like the govt owns them.

 

[Montecarlo]

What is your position? Can you argue it without fighting individuals?

I'm for BBI because my region (Mt Kenya) has had a raw deal in terms of representation and cash allocation. That's my bottom line.

For those opposed to BBI, what do you hope to gain? We saw our opponents derail one man, one vote one shilling agenda.

If you want a substantive discussion get the document and extract one proposal after the other. For each let it have a thread....in the meantime I think every one has a right to vote as they deem fit. There's minimal evidence to show that people vote objectively so no matter how many people here soberly bring out the uselessness of BBI, during election day emotions will reign supreme. It is the bane of humanity. The more rational you think you are the more emotional leaning you actually are.

 

[The.Black.Templar]

So it's tribal when I talk about my own interests? What is wrong with being a Kikuyu? Why are other ethnic groups "allowed to be tribes" but it's a taboo to be Kikuyus and push for own interests?

the same man orchestrating the 41 vs 1 is at the helm of it was it right or OK when he was doing that?, you said it was wrong then but here we are again, so which is which?

 

[Clemens]

Simple mindedness will have you criticising an example given.

 

[The.Black.Templar]

Have you read the document? Tuanze hapo.

what have I said that is not in true, tuanzie hapo instead

 

[zapp_brannigan]

Why should we kick the can down the road? Why not address those injustices now? Why should kids fall out of school because they are poor and come from the wrong region? Take allocation of bursary funds and tell me it's fair! Tell me we should pause childrens education to wait a "little longer".

Each constituency to get Sh137.4m

Each of the 290 elected MPs is set to receive a flat figure of Sh137.4 million.

www.businessdailyafrica.com

Look at the front page . We are on our knees begging IMF and World Bank to lend us money but at the same time planning to squander a sizable chunk to cater for MCA car grant . How will the car grants improve our current economic situation . I am a Kikuyu but I don't see how this one helps me or the large community . Let's deal with corruption and you will realise that it's our biggest problem .

 

[The.Black.Templar]

Look at the front page . We are on our knees begging IMF and World Bank to lend us money but at the same time planning to squander a sizable chunk to cater for MCA car grant . How will the car grants improve our current economic situation . I am a Kikuyu but I don't see how this one helps me or the large community . Let's deal with corruption and you will realise that it's our biggest problem .

I heard Murathe say that all MCAs already have cars, so its nothing if we just waste some more money on them even though they don't need it, Kenya knows no frugality measures

 

[zapp_brannigan]

I heard Murathe say that all MCAs already have cars, so its nothing if we just waste some more money on them even though they don't need it, Kenya knows no frugality measures

The BBI project , COVID and upcoming elections are a deadly cocktail that will make us suffer for years to come .Infact BBI seems to have overshadowed the Big4 Agenda .

 

[Mr Black]

What inequalities are these, let us go back to your example


Does marsabit have a factory like Athiriver that employs the pastoralist and thus give him the opportunity to also contribute to the national tax fund? the pastoralist is only make due with the opportunities that were dealt to him. If there was a factory he would also contribute same taxes as the man in Athi river.

Would you go to marsabit and find a factory there to work in? if you were in Marsabit what would you do so that would bring you upto par with the factory worker in Athi River? probably not much

Marginalisation needs a whole convention to interrogate and correct

@Clemens , zero in further you will find that marginalisation is more than a regional or ethnic issue, it is a class issue, the poor are cannon fodder for our crony capitalistic system. The poor of Central Kenya are targets just like those in West Pokot or Migori

Today's front-page offers a perfect illustration:

MCAs who by virtue of their central role in making BBI pass have become cronies of the ruling elite are (in an impulsive move) granted a car grant, that in the backdrop of looming higher taxation and job cuts, so who takes the hit? The poor whose children have to bear with understaffed and under-equipped schools, now that is marginalisation

The poor of Kenya are the most marginalised regardless of ethnicity or the region they hail from or reside in, think of the insecurity in Mathare yet right across the road in Muthaiga you have security tighter than any puthy you have ravaged!

We would all be better off if we attacked poverty rather than marginalisation which is quite easy to mask, let us have pro-poor initiatives and laws instead

 

[zapp_brannigan]

Marginalisation needs a whole convention to interrogate and correct

@Clemens needs to look at marginalisation from a wider angle, it is more than a regional or ethnic issue, it is a class issue, the poor are cannon fodder for our crony capitalistic system.

View attachment 30494

Today's front-page offers a perfect illustration:

MCAs who by virtue of their central role in making BBI pass have become cronies of the ruling elite are (in an impulsive move) granted a car grant, that in the backdrop of looming higher taxation and job cuts, so who takes the hit? The poor whose children have to bear with understaffed and under-equipped schools, now that is marginalisation

The poor of Kenya are the most marginalised regardless of ethnicity or the region they hail from or reside in, think of the insecurity in Mathare yet right across the road in Muthaiga you have security tighter than any puthy you have ravaged!

We would all be better off if we attacked poverty rather than marginalisation which is quite easy to mask, let us have pro-poor initiatives and laws instead

Thank you Sir .

 

[mzeiya]

Man!
The discussion on this thread is top-notch. Y'all need to be national political pundits. Very sober and enlightening discussion. For anyone who needs to read the full BBI Report, here it is.

 

[Clemens]

Marginalisation needs a whole convention to interrogate and correct

@Clemens , zero in further you will find that marginalisation is more than a regional or ethnic issue, it is a class issue, the poor are cannon fodder for our crony capitalistic system. The poor of Central Kenya are targets just like those in West Pokot or Migori

View attachment 30494

Today's front-page offers a perfect illustration:

MCAs who by virtue of their central role in making BBI pass have become cronies of the ruling elite are (in an impulsive move) granted a car grant, that in the backdrop of looming higher taxation and job cuts, so who takes the hit? The poor whose children have to bear with understaffed and under-equipped schools, now that is marginalisation

The poor of Kenya are the most marginalised regardless of ethnicity or the region they hail from or reside in, think of the insecurity in Mathare yet right across the road in Muthaiga you have security tighter than any puthy you have ravaged!

We would all be better off if we attacked poverty rather than marginalisation which is quite easy to mask, let us have pro-poor initiatives and laws instead

Nimekuvulia kofia kaka bratha. Well put.

 

[Tiger Bone]

Marginalisation needs a whole convention to interrogate and correct

@Clemens , zero in further you will find that marginalisation is more than a regional or ethnic issue, it is a class issue, the poor are cannon fodder for our crony capitalistic system. The poor of Central Kenya are targets just like those in West Pokot or Migori

View attachment 30494

Today's front-page offers a perfect illustration:

MCAs who by virtue of their central role in making BBI pass have become cronies of the ruling elite are (in an impulsive move) granted a car grant, that in the backdrop of looming higher taxation and job cuts, so who takes the hit? The poor whose children have to bear with understaffed and under-equipped schools, now that is marginalisation

The poor of Kenya are the most marginalised regardless of ethnicity or the region they hail from or reside in, think of the insecurity in Mathare yet right across the road in Muthaiga you have security tighter than any puthy you have ravaged!

We would all be better off if we attacked poverty rather than marginalisation which is quite easy to mask, let us have pro-poor initiatives and laws instead

I couldn't have said it better myself