Imagine going to jail because of Sh300

[mzeiya]

A jail sentence of 14 days or fine of 1,000 is not a fitting punishment. Why should criminals be let off this lightly? Don't we use fines and jailing as punishment to detter people from commiting these crimes?

The jail time doesn't have to be custodial. It should be substituted for community service orders.

Nanyi msilalamike that cases, including important ones take ages, in fact years to be concluded.
Prosecution can't do shiet kama hakuna witnesses who have to turn up in court and many times face multiple adjournements. Kila siku...hearing, hearing. Polisi pia lazima wafanye investigations no matter how simple a matter is. Kupoteza tu resources na time kama mafala.

Being reasonable is two way.
The thief wasn't reasonable.
Why should I be?

Do you. The complainant has every right to waste their time and that of the state. Wengine wetu would rather seek to know why someone would steal food.. FOOD for ferkin sake and make amends. Mimi nikapata ata maybe ako na familia, I would chip in coz I've slept hungry before and I know the pain and lack of dignity of it all.

 

[bigDog]

Nanyi msilalamike that cases, including important ones take ages, in fact years to be concluded.
Prosecution can't do shiet kama hakuna witnesses who have to turn up in court and many times face multiple adjournements. Kila siku...hearing, hearing. Polisi pia lazima wafanye investigations no matter how simple a matter is. Kupoteza tu resources na time kama mafala.

Do you. The complainant has every right to waste their time and that of the state. Wengine wetu would rather seek to know why someone would steal food.. FOOD for ferkin sake and make amends. Mimi nikapata ata maybe ako na familia, I would chip in coz I've slept hungry before and I know the pain and lack of dignity of it all.

I'm not saying that all theft cases must be prosecuted. Not all cases are worth prosecuting. For example, a genuinely hungry person who doesnt have a choice merits understanding and help. However, not all cases of food theft deserve understanding. This guy was an employee of a food packaging company. This is not an unemployed destitute! He is not a hungry guy about to drop dead from hunger. He is an entitled mf who thinks that this world owes him gratitude for having existed. He got zero chills stealing that chicken every day he goes to work. Those kinds of idiots really mess small businesses!

 

[Field Marshal]

Nanyi msilalamike that cases, including important ones take ages, in fact years to be concluded.
Prosecution can't do shiet kama hakuna witnesses who have to turn up in court and many times face multiple adjournements. Kila siku...hearing, hearing. Polisi pia lazima wafanye investigations no matter how simple a matter is. Kupoteza tu resources na time kama mafala.

Do you. The complainant has every right to waste their time and that of the state. Wengine wetu would rather seek to know why someone would steal food.. FOOD for ferkin sake and make amends. Mimi nikapata ata maybe ako na familia, I would chip in coz I've slept hungry before and I know the pain and lack of dignity of it all.

You are being a little silly. Do you know what would happen to that business if say 20 employees stole a kilo each every other day?

As Gaylord has said, "reasonableness" is two way....

 

[Aviator]

You are being a little silly. Do you know what would happen to that business if say 20 employees stole a kilo each every other day?

As Gaylord has said, "reasonableness" is two way....

Ferk you

 

[mzeiya]

You are being a little silly. Do you know what would happen to that business if say 20 employees stole a kilo each every other day?

As Gaylord has said, "reasonableness" is two way....

And that's not the case here unless pia wewe ulikuwa hapo. Mko too petty saa zingine.

 

[bigDog]

And that's not the case here unless pia wewe ulikuwa hapo. Mko too petty saa zingine.

Have you ever tried to run any small business or Mjengo ya jua Kali? Hebu uliza @QuadroK4000 hizo CCTV Huwa wanaweka Kwa Nini? Boss, theft by employees is a very serious business problem. Employers need every tool they could use to fight it. Letting the law take it's course is one of those tools. I will pay above market rates for a good job, pay on time and honour all my obligations. Lakini I draw the line when theft occurs.

That's why staff rules are important. Staff rules that are taught and enforced. There has to be minimum expected standards of behaviour. That includes not breaking the law.

 

[mzeiya]

That's why staff rules are important. Staff rules that are taught and enforced. There has to be minimum expected standards of behaviour. That includes not breaking the law.

Of course rules matter. In fact, most of the World's justice systems rely on the commandments God gave (not just the 10) which I absolutely respect

Also, in my opinion, justice is as equally important as is mercy.

My point for the umpteenth time is that sio lazima every small matter be taken to court. Why? I've already expressed myself above.

Am I saying a wrongdoer shouldn't be punished? Heck no. I'm just saying sometimes it is good to be reasonable adults and save time, money and energy.

Badala ya kushinda Kibera Law Courts every fortnight for two years because you lost a chicken leg, we can instill discipline in a more humane and logical manner.

 

[QuadroK4000]

Of course rules matter. In fact, most of the World's justice systems rely on the commandments God gave (not just the 10) which I absolutely respect

Also, in my opinion, justice is as equally important as is mercy.

My point for the umpteenth time is that sio lazima every small matter be taken to court. Why? I've already expressed myself above.

Am I saying a wrongdoer shouldn't be punished? Heck no. I'm just saying sometimes it is good to be reasonable adults and save time, money and energy.

Badala ya kushinda Kibera Law Courts every fortnight for two years because you lost a chicken leg, we can instill discipline in a more humane and logical manner.

Let me tell you something ama an example.

There are folks who own something like a wine and spirits outlets.
So, the employee or employees sneak in a carton or two. Watauza yao kwanza before they can sell yours.... Heck they can even 'market' theirs and re stock theirs.....

Na ujue Wewe ndiye utalipa mshahara na ulipe rent, utilities etc etc.



What would you recommend for such a person?

What if the guy had sneaked out 1000 chicken legs... Na ujue hua inaanza na moja, then tatu and so on.

Ushawahi ibiwa without violence kwa biashara alafu unagundua baadaye?

 

[mzeiya]

What if the guy had sneaked out 1000 chicken legs...

He would lose the job, find a way to pay and if not, face the law coz that's not a petty thief...that's a hardened criminal.

Perhaps he will escape but I remember growing up, kulikuwa na wazee wa chief.. Non police who used to maintain order kwa mtaa. They would deal with such a matter I think. Sijui if they still exist.

The reason I had mentioned Rwanda's kijiji court system earlier is that after the 1994 genocide, there were so many wrongdoers that until today, labda kesi hazingekuwa zimeisha. So the village elders act as judges and in the same locality, fitting punishments such as kuchimba choo za shule, kujenga barabara and other manual jobs like the ones kazi ya vijana used to engage in were meted after the determination of a case and the offenders would get assimilated back into the community.

Win-win.

What we face here is a systematic issue we have where we keep complaining ati criminals wanawachiliwa on bail basis alafu wanaendelea na mienendo yao. And we can't change the situation unless we think of other methods to deal with petty crimes.

 

[QuadroK4000]

He would lose the job, find a way to pay and if not, face the law coz that's not a petty thief...that's a hardened criminal.

Perhaps he will escape but I remember growing up kukuliwa na wazee wa chief.. Non police who used to maintain order kwa mtaa. They would deal with such a matter.

The reason I had mentioned Rwanda's kijiji court system earlier is that after the 1994 genocide, there were so many wrongdoers that until today, labda kesi hazingekuwa zimeisha. So the village elders act as judges and in the same locality, fitting punishments such as kuchimba choo za shule, kujenga barabara and other manual jobs like the ones kazi ya vijana used to engage in.

Win-win.

It's a systematic issue we have as much as it's a personal. We can't change unless we think of other methods to deal with petty crimes.

Chuuma uikunje ingali moto.... I get your point that is why that @bigDog guy posted earlier.... That of course you check.... Kama ni njaa, samehea msee. Lakini kama ako na mshahara, hiyo ni story ingine.

Ushawahi ibiwa na employee?

 

[mzeiya]

Ushawahi ibiwa na employee?

Yes. Almost a $1K in my tours & travel firm.
The guy ran a parallel system to the one I had installed so clients from abroad with no local knowledge would be booked into hotels, jamaa anaweka commission which is usually 10% and do 25% mark up instead of the usual 10. Complicated mess but I fired him without severence.

 

[QuadroK4000]

We can't change the situation unless we think of other methods to deal with petty crimes.

Yes.

That is one one of methods that has been fronted up there.

 

[QuadroK4000]

Yes. Almost a $1K in my tours & travel firm.
The guy ran a parallel system to the one I had installed so clients from abroad with no local knowledge would be booked into hotels, jamaa anaweka commission which is usually 10% and do 25% mark up instead of the usual 10. Complicated mess but I fired him without severence.

You should have put measures to counter that.... Not necessarily closed circuit TV but 'other' methods.

How long did it take you to learn that the employee was doing it?

Na Wewe ka dynasty ni msee poa sana. (sic)

 

[mzeiya]

How long did it take you to learn that the employee was doing it?

I really don't know how long it had taken. Only knew when I sent feedback forms via Survey Monkey and one client indicated the price was exorbitant so nikafanya my own investigation coz normally we keep soft and hard files of each client against financial records.

Anyway, I get your point guys. Perhaps I shouldn't be too lenient but I'll never be unnecessary cruel.

End of story on my end.

 

[QuadroK4000]

I really don't know how long it had taken. Only knew when I sent feedback forms via Survey Monkey and one client indicated the price was exorbitant.

Anyway, I get your point guys. Perhaps I shouldn't be too lenient but I'll never be unnecessary cruel.

End of story on my end.

No one is usually is.

Lakini bro, when push comes to shove........

Do you think people including you have all the time on their hands to supervise adults?

Now think about how much you lost, which is very sad,and I am not asking how much you had invested, because I will also feel sad, most probably you would be a huge asset to alot of individuals.

Lakini kama unge follow up through a 'system' maybe just maybe....

By the way @mzeiya the word you looking for is unnecessarily cruel.

 

[bigDog]

Yes. Almost a $1K in my tours & travel firm.
The guy ran a parallel system to the one I had installed so clients from abroad with no local knowledge would be booked into hotels, jamaa anaweka commission which is usually 10% and do 25% mark up instead of the usual 10. Complicated mess but I fired him without severence.

Kumbe you have also been a victim ! That's white collar crime. I don't know how to deal with it. You probably have an image to protect.

Hapa Kwa jua Kali mambo ni different. I would rather be feared rather than be liked. The rule is to put the fear of God in the potential offender.

The potential offender should flip the OPs question and ask "Do I want to go to prison for stealing chicken worth 300?".

 

[QuadroK4000]

Kumbe you have also been a victim ! That's white collar crime. I don't know how to deal with it. You probably have an image to protect.

Hapa Kwa jua Kali mambo ni different. I would rather be feared rather than be liked. The rule is to put the fear of God in the potential offender.

The potential offender should flip the OPs question and ask "Do I want to go to prison for stealing chicken worth 300?".

Hehe I won't attach your other post about man in the image of God, but I get your point. Either way one thousand dollars is quite something.

Sad.

 

[bigDog]

I really don't know how long it had taken. Only knew when I sent feedback forms via Survey Monkey and one client indicated the price was exorbitant so nikafanya my own investigation coz normally we keep soft and hard files of each client against financial records.

Anyway, I get your point guys. Perhaps I shouldn't be too lenient but I'll never be unnecessary cruel.

End of story on my end.

In IT, we have penetration testing (na siyo ya @Cortedivoire ). You pay someone to find security gaps in your system. Perhaps that's an idea that could be used to protect business processes.

 

[bigDog]

Hehe I won't attach your other post about man in the image of God, but I get your point. Either way one thousand dollars is quite something.

Sad.

He he. They say that they only fear Ngai(God), thitima (electricity) na ūcūrū mūhiū (very hot uji)! That's why I would be interested in instilling that fear!

 

[DeepInYourMind]

Those who steal billions of your money you treat like kings and queens