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Denis Young said:
This is not happening any time soon. The last thing government needs is cutting taxes and reducing the Ordinary Revenue it collects. All it will do is increase the budget deficit.
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J for genius
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Denis Young said:
This is not happening any time soon. The last thing government needs is cutting taxes and reducing the Ordinary Revenue it collects. All it will do is increase the budget deficit.
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You've forgot to add that it reduces budgeted corruption, something Ruto has perfected compared to other regimes
 
Denis Young said:
How does it reduce budgeted corruption?
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Because our budgeting making process uses expenditure first approach so it's easy to budget for corruption. If we used the revenue first approach like majority of OECD countries then budgeted corruption will reduce.
 
Denis Young said:
This is not happening any time soon. The last thing government needs is cutting taxes and reducing the Ordinary Revenue it collects. All it will do is increase the budget deficit.
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Whoever is behind these economic policies reasons like a school child. Cannot see beyond 1st order effects.

In their mind increasing taxes equals increased revenue.

But we're told none of the so called experts drive actual policy, all decisions are made in state house. The positions are merely used to reward allies with govt jobs
 
Okiya said:
Because our budgeting making process uses expenditure first approach so it's easy to budget for corruption. If we used the revenue first approach like majority of OECD countries then budgeted corruption will reduce.
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Isn't this the first financial year that we are implementing zero-based budgeting? That is a step in the right directions because at the very least it prevents wastage of our meager resources. Couple that with E-Procurement and standardized prices will cut wastage, if it works.

Kenya doesn't generate enough revenue to fund what falls under recurrent expenditure. At the moment, Kenya is borrowing from multilaterals for budget support. We are even borrowing to send money to the counties. That is even before you get to the development. Yet Kenyans like you who keep complaining that Ruto has built nothing of consequences will keep demanding infrastructure as if the country is capable of funding it from its own resources. Teachers, lecturers, doctors etc have also added to the wage bill because of their CBA demands and the CBC curriculum. Expenditure is always going up.

What matters most for me is the liability management strategy. The goal is to consistently reduce our budget deficit, borrow cheaper loans to retire old expensive loans in an effort to create fiscal room. At some point in the near future, if Kenya sticks to this path, the economy will be thriving, resources will be freed up, and government will be able to collect even more that 3 trillion. (Revenues have been growing by 10% y/y). Debt repayment is biggest issue for Kenya. That is why you can't cut taxes recklessly. It has to be strategic.
 
DeepInYourMind said:
Whoever is behind these economic policies reasons like a school child. Cannot see beyond 1st order effects.

In their mind increasing taxes equals increased revenue.

But we're told none of the so called experts drive actual policy, all decisions are made in state house. The positions are merely used to reward allies with govt jobs
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Let me get this right. Government borrowing is a problem. Raising taxes is a problem. Where do you want government to get money to repay loans?
The whole reason government was raising taxes was to meet the IMF conditions on resource mobilization in order to receive budgetary support. Without that IMF money Kenya would have sunk in 2021. The lesson here is to never cheer on leaders who consistently raise the budget deficit in the guise of building roads. May we never find ourselves in this hole again.
 
Denis Young said:
Let me get this right. Government borrowing is a problem. Raising taxes is a problem. Where do you want government to get money to repay loans?
The whole reason government was raising taxes was to meet the IMF conditions on resource mobilization in order to receive budgetary support. Without that IMF money Kenya would have sunk in 2021. The lesson here is to never cheer on leaders who consistently raise the budget deficit in the guise of building roads. May we never find ourselves in this hole again.
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Borrowing is not a problem. The process is clearly accounted for in the constitution. Borrowing for strategic objectives to increase Kenyans' economic productivity in the long term is useful.

But you can't just blatantly siphon money from Kenyans to foreigners using opaque unconstitutional processes then force them to pay for it with their lives.
 
Denis Young said:
The whole reason government was raising taxes was to meet the IMF conditions on resource mobilization in order to receive budgetary support. Without that IMF money Kenya would have sunk in 2021.
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Raising taxes to expect increased revenue is what I meant by thinking at the level of first order effects like a school child.

An economy flourishes by favorable business conditions that unlock the economical potential of millions and increases revenue collected by an order of magnitude.

Someone give me a guitar so that I can play beautiful music to goats.
 
DeepInYourMind said:
Borrowing is not a problem. The process is clearly accounted for in the constitution. Borrowing for strategic objectives to increase Kenyans' economic productivity in the long term is useful.

But you can't just blatantly siphon money from Kenyans to foreigners using opaque unconstitutional processes then force them to pay for it with their lives.
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This is the Omtatah school of though that claims we have no debts. That is why the guy has spent a decade in court failing on technicalities. The debt register is available online. Everybody can see it.

The only argument Omtatah has is should we auction the likes of Uhuru, Ruto etc to recover some of these moneys. I would love that but I won't hold my breath.

Get with the program. Let's reduce our debt stock consistently and move forward.
 
DeepInYourMind said:
Raising taxes to expect increased revenue is what I meant by thinking at the level of first order effects like a school child.

An economy flourishes by favorable business conditions that unlock the economical potential of millions and increases revenue collected by an order of magnitude.

Someone give me a guitar so that I can play beautiful music to goats.
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Correct on all accounts.

But how do you grow businesses today when the debts are due tomorrow??

Were we supposed to tell our Eurobond holders to wait as we grow the economy so we can pay their money?

Ruto was sworn in in September 2022. By around December the government wasn't even completely constituted. The a few months down the line you were on the streets mkipiga masufuria and causing chaos. Then in February 2024, a year and a few months later, the $2bn Eurobond needed to be paid.

At what point was this business growth supposed to happen?
 
Denis Young said:
This is the Omtatah school of though that claims we have no debts. That is why the guy has spent a decade in court failing on technicalities. The debt register is available online. Everybody can see it.

The only argument Omtatah has is should we auction the likes of Uhuru, Ruto etc to recover some of these moneys. I would love that but I won't hold my breath.

Get with the program. Let's reduce our debt stock consistently and move forward.
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This is not Omtatah's 'school of thought'. It is what is laid out in the constitution. Which uhuruto immediately embarked on mutilating as soon as they came into power.

It is actually very simple
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Denis Young said:
Correct on all accounts.

But how do you grow businesses today when the debts are due tomorrow??

Were we supposed to tell our Eurobond holders to wait as we grow the economy so we can pay their money?

Ruto was sworn in in September 2022. By around December the government wasn't even completely constituted. The a few months down the line you were on the streets mkipiga masufuria and causing chaos. Then in February 2024, a year and a few months later, the $2bn Eurobond needed to be paid.

At what point was this business growth supposed to happen?
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So the way to collect more revenue is to kill existing businesses, causing job losses? And the jobless become an additional burden to their employed relatives/friends. Everyone follows by reducing discretionary spending leading to further business closures and less money in circulation.

And then using additional funds to employ an army of KRA agents to harrass the ever dwindling pool of viable businesses?

That's why I said they are like a school child who cannot reason beyond first order effects.

Meanwhile other leaders like Bukele and Milei show that it is possible to bring about radical change in under two years, huku mnadanganywa it will take 10 years to sort out the mess.
 
DeepInYourMind said:
So the way to collect more revenue is to kill existing businesses, causing job losses? And the jobless become an additional burden to their employed relatives/friends. Everyone follows by reducing discretionary spending leading to further business closures and less money in circulation.

And then using additional funds to employ an army of KRA agents to harrass the ever dwindling pool of viable businesses?

That's why I said they are like a school child who cannot reason beyond first order effects.

Meanwhile other leaders like Bukele and Milei show that it is possible to bring about radical change in under two years, huku mnadanganywa it will take 10 years to sort out the mess.
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It is funny to me when people quote Milei. Do you know how many people lost their jobs after he implemented his policies? Do you know that even today there are still violent protests in their country? Do you know he is also under an IMF program? Do you know how many businesses have shut down over there?

People love romantisizing other countries because they are not experiencing the challenges over there. They are not experiencing the daily rants on their social media.
 
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