Former CJ speaks

Meria

Meria

Elder Lister
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wrongturn said:
you expect uhuru to have court cases? what are you guys smoking?Even if ruto wins, nothing will be done to uhuru,he'll have a peaceful and quiet retirement.
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You must have missed the part where I said 'if they are enforced.'
Uhuru already has cases and determinations on his head. One of the rulings in the BBI case found him guilty of gross violation of the constitution. The same with KMC and now failure to appoint all the 40 judges. There is a case being prepared in court where he is being sued for the use of taxes to finance the BBI bill and that he should refund all that money.

These cases never really go away ata kama si Ruto or Raila in government.
 
Denis Young said:
You must have missed the part where I said 'if they are enforced.'
Uhuru already has cases and determinations on his head. One of the rulings in the BBI case found him guilty of gross violation of the constitution. The same with KMC and now failure to appoint all the 40 judges. There is a case being prepared in court where he is being sued for the use of taxes to finance the BBI bill and that he should refund all that money.

These cases never really go away ata kama si Ruto or Raila in government.
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143. Protection from legal proceedings
Chapter Nine - The Executive Part 2. The President and Deputy President Hits: 48860



(1) Criminal proceedings shall not be instituted or continued in any court against the President or a person performing the functions of that office, during their tenure of office.

(2) Civil proceedings shall not be instituted in any court against the President or the person performing the functions of that office during their tenure of office in respect of anything done or not done in the exercise of their powers under this Constitution.

(3) Where provision is made in law limiting the time within which proceedings under clause (1) or (2) may be brought against a person, a period of time during which the person holds or performs the functions of the office of the President shall not be taken into account in calculating the period of time prescribed by that law.

(4) The immunity of the President under this Article shall not extend to a crime for which the President may be prosecuted under any treaty to which Kenya is party and which prohibits such immunity.
 
Mwalimu-G said:
143. Protection from legal proceedings
Chapter Nine - The Executive Part 2. The President and Deputy President Hits: 48860



(1) Criminal proceedings shall not be instituted or continued in any court against the President or a person performing the functions of that office, during their tenure of office.

(2) Civil proceedings shall not be instituted in any court against the President or the person performing the functions of that office during their tenure of office in respect of anything done or not done in the exercise of their powers under this Constitution.

(3) Where provision is made in law limiting the time within which proceedings under clause (1) or (2) may be brought against a person, a period of time during which the person holds or performs the functions of the office of the President shall not be taken into account in calculating the period of time prescribed by that law.

(4) The immunity of the President under this Article shall not extend to a crime for which the President may be prosecuted under any treaty to which Kenya is party and which prohibits such immunity.
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Agreed. Which court has brought criminal charges against the president? The question to the HC was if Uhuru could be sued in his personal capacity which the court responded in the affirmative.

The court also determined that the president had grossly violated the constitution. Therefore, that opens the president up to being impeached, a process that doesn't take place in court.

Finally, the presidency doesn't grant you immunity from criminality you commit during you tenure after you exit hence why I qualified my statement with 'if Uhuru ever leaves office'.

The question is, will there be a clamor to bring this charges on his head once he leaves office or will people just move on? Also, if the charges result in a conviction will that government enforce it or will they strike boardroom deals. I think we all know the answer to that.
 
Denis Young said:
ls. I think we all know the answer to that.
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That is why your arguments are self-defeating. Too theoretical.
The finding of the high court that the President can be sued in his personal capacity is not grounded in law. It is a case of the court making laws as it goes along which has been described in some quarters as arrogating itself legislative powers.
 
Mwalimu-G said:
That is why your arguments are self-defeating. Too theoretical.
The finding of the high court that the President can be sued in his personal capacity is not grounded in law. It is a case of the court making laws as it goes along which has been described in some quarters as arrogating itself legislative powers.
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Too theoretical?? Maybe. But people are really underestimating the times we are in. Activism is the order of the day.
 
Mwalimu-G said:
143. Protection from legal proceedings
Chapter Nine - The Executive Part 2. The President and Deputy President Hits: 48860



(1) Criminal proceedings shall not be instituted or continued in any court against the President or a person performing the functions of that office, during their tenure of office.

(2) Civil proceedings shall not be instituted in any court against the President or the person performing the functions of that office during their tenure of office in respect of anything done or not done in the exercise of their powers under this Constitution.

(3) Where provision is made in law limiting the time within which proceedings under clause (1) or (2) may be brought against a person, a period of time during which the person holds or performs the functions of the office of the President shall not be taken into account in calculating the period of time prescribed by that law.

(4) The immunity of the President under this Article shall not extend to a crime for which the President may be prosecuted under any treaty to which Kenya is party and which prohibits such immunity.
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When you think about it, this is a very colonial set of laws. Essentially, it only leaves the president accountable to a foreign power but not to the people he claims to lead.
 
Denis Young said:
Too theoretical?? Maybe. But people are really underestimating the times we are in. Activism is the order of the day.
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And that is the main challenge Kenyatta has had to contend with, implementing a new constitution written by people who grew up under crippling dictatorship who were keen to protect themselves from future presidents. They ended up shackling the presidency to a point where it is almost dysfunctional. It is time we had a conversation about if we shot ourselves in the foot.
 
Mwalimu-G said:
And that is the main challenge Kenyatta has had to contend with, implementing a new constitution written by people who grew up under crippling dictatorship who were keen to protect themselves from future presidents. They ended up shackling the presidency to a point where it is almost dysfunctional. It is time we had a conversation about if we shot ourselves in the foot.
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And this is what bbi was to heal?
 
Mwalimu-G said:
Some of it Sir. Eg The Judiciary Ombudsman would have given us an avenue to express our dissatisfaction with aspects of Judicial service so we stop criticizing them in barazas which looks indecorous.
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So your solution to 'unshackling` the presidency is' shackling' the judiciary?
 
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