Discussions With Theists

[Burner]

The flourish with which you declare your belief borders on a reckless arrogance, therefore all I can to one such as yourself in matters spiritual is this.

Look at the bigger picture often, you'll come to understand the true nature of Mwene Nyaga.

All in all you are on the right path.

How is it reckless or arrogant to declare one's beliefs and have reason for them?

And i don't know what you mean by the big picture.

 

[Berlin]

How is it reckless or arrogant to declare one's beliefs and have reason for them?

And i don't know what you mean by the big picture.

The recklessness is in the wordings and in your case shouldn't it be the lack of belief?
The big picture is derived from history as well in detailed fiction, with a keen eye you will see the effects of spirituality as well as religion.

 

[Burner]

The recklessness is in the wordings and in your case shouldn't it be the lack of belief?
The big picture is derived from history as well in detailed fiction, with a keen eye you will see the effects of spirituality as well as religion.

If we are being pedantic about it, then yes. I lack belief in the claim that a god exists. However, it wouldnt be wrong to distill that down and simply say i dont believe in gods. The same way i can say i dont believe in fairies or ghosts.

I have no doubt that religion and spirituality has a effect on humanity. Good or bad the effects are definitely there. I just want sound reasoning when i engage a theist on a matter and not get afraid when they come across something that goes against the grain of something they believe in.

 

[Berlin]

If we are being pedantic about it, then yes. I lack belief in the claim that a god exists. However, it wouldnt be wrong to distill that down and simply say i dont believe in gods. The same way i can say i dont believe in fairies or ghosts.

I have no doubt that religion and spirituality has a effect on humanity. Good or bad the effects are definitely there. I just want sound reasoning when i engage a theist on a matter and not get afraid when they come across something that goes against the grain of something they believe in.

Man is a spiritual creature since in plenty of civilizations he sought to communicate with a benevolent force, ironically even radicals believe their actions are pure.

My reasoning as such is that thanks to unscrupulous fellows we have unwisely become stuck in dogmas and doctrines which serve to entrench division amongst the people.

 

[Burner]

Man is a spiritual creature since in plenty of civilizations he sought to communicate with a benevolent force, ironically even radicals believe their actions are pure.

My reasoning as such is that thanks to unscrupulous fellows we have unwisely become stuck in dogmas and doctrines which serve to entrench division amongst the people.

We may have been doing it for millennia but its the "why" we have been doing it that is not reasonable. We have invented or thought up all manner of gods/spirits/etc for all reasons. We do not choose beliefs, we are convinced to belief something. So even if people weren't being unscrupulous or consciously dishonest, all they would need is to be convinced of something without reasonable evidence and you would still have those divisions.

 

[Shaz on]

In the last few weeks, I have engaged some theists on this forum regarding some of their beliefs.
I consider myself an atheist, meaning I do not believe in your claim of a god simply because I don't believe whatever evidence you put forth for your belief is wanting.
I can honestly say someone like @Liberty will try to give an explanation for a particular matter as best as he can, using what relevant passages of the Bible he can to back up his views and even some straight logic to try rationalise his belief.

My issue is with other lister who are theists but totally incapable of having an honest conversation about a particular topic, but will instead veer off into topics they have zero understanding off when challenged to explain something they believe.
Listen people, beliefs are not something you choose, you must be convinced by something to believe something. You do not choose to believe in Jesus or Allah or fairies or ghosts. You believe in something because there is a convincing piece of evidence that leads you to the conclusion that X is true or false.
But here is the thing, when someone starts to poke holes in the logic of why there is an inconsistency in your belief you should either supply the evidence to fortify your argument or say you just don't know.

For example, if you are trying to defend flat earth as evidenced by the bible and when questioned about it, you start trying to deflect by saying "yeah, well you cant explain how evolution is real and not just a theory". This not only shows how ignorant you are on evolution as a science, it also indicates how scared you are that something makes sense and you can't come to terms with it. Hell, be brave enough to say you believe something for no good reason and decide to be irrational about the matter.

Also, if you tell me X happened therefore it is real or true, I or anyone else for that matter, should require more than your word to believe it. Anecdotal evidence is the WORST evidence you should ever present to be believed. Even in any court of law, eye-witness testimony is the lowest form of evidence you can present simply because the witness could be lying, misremembering or mistaken.

If you make a claim or an assertion, the burden of proof is upon you to show it is true. If I offer an explanation for why your claim is wrong and you discredit my explanation, YOURS DOES NOT HOLD TRUE BY DEFAULT!!!!
For example:
Me: the bedside lamp in my bedroom fell over on its own, it must have been a ghost.
Wife: Maybe it was a strong gust of wind.
Me: Impossible. The windows and the doors were both closed at the time and I was the only person in the room. Therefore it was a ghost.
All I have done in this case is rule out wind as the cause. There are all manner of simple explanations ranging from earthquakes, electrical fault, magnetic fields to completely outlandish ones (since we have ghosts on the table) like aliens, goblins, demons and fairies, that should be on the table till they can be ruled out.
The best answer to what just happened is the lamp fell over and I have no explanation for how it happened.
The moment I say claim ghosts, then I have to SHOW how ghost are the only explanation (or the most probable) for that particular phenomenon.

God is real dude

 

[Burner]

God is real dude

Prove it.