Bottom up economic model discussion

[Ngimanene na Muchere]

There are a lot of plastic products imported that are sold at Nyamakima. We have a lot of companies in Kenya that produce plastic products. These Kenyan companies pay taxes and employ a lot of people. Your bottom up idea means that we're better off closing these companies and letting Nyamakima continue

And you miss the part of making a die and mold which can run to millions of Kshs upfront, which Kenyan company is willing to venture out with this risk unless assured that whatever plastic part you`re making will be sold to the public in hundreds of thousands..... In China, making a mold is about 3K USD dependent on factors, of course they will make plastics in very many shapes as it`s cheaper for them.... who do you blame? Why do you think the basic shape of a karai has never changed, because they are assured that will sell in the millions....but why don`t we have plastic toys made in KE? Given the complexity of that die and mold, which company will take on that risk? And do not forget those aluminum, steel blocks that are required for machining are imported too

 

[Okiya]

And you miss the part of making a die and mold which can run to millions of Kshs upfront, which Kenyan company is willing to venture out with this risk unless assured that whatever plastic part you`re making will be sold to the public in hundreds of thousands..... In China, making a mold is about 3K USD dependent on factors, of course they will make plastics in very many shapes as it`s cheaper for them.... who do you blame? Why do you think the basic shape of a karai has never changed, because they are assured that will sell in the millions....but why don`t we have plastic toys made in KE? Given the complexity of that die and mold, which company will take on that risk? And do not forget those aluminum, steel blocks that are required for machining are imported too

We have karai from China competing directly with karai from Kenya. Of course nobody will buy karai from Kenya because of price


And back to my earlier question. Why don't we also allow other imports for instance fish imports from China and let them compete directly with the local fish farmer?

 

[Ngimanene na Muchere]

And back to my earlier question. Why don't we also allow other imports for instance fish imports from China and let them compete directly with the local fish farmer?

And also back to the follow up question, why do countries protect certain sectors of their economy and not others?

 

[Okiya]

And also back to the follow up question, why do countries protect certain sectors of their economy and not others?

Those countries protect the sectors so that their citizens can have jobs.

 

[Ngimanene na Muchere]

We have karai from China competing directly with karai from Kenya.

You`re clutching at straws here...what`s the ratio of this?

 

[Okiya]

You`re clutching at straws here...what`s the ratio of this?

Karai was just an example. There are many more. Study at the bigger picture. Have you looked at Kenya's manufacturing data from 2013 to date? Compare it with the economic growth from 2013 to date and you will note similarities.

 

[Ngimanene na Muchere]

fish imports from China

Can you talk about this without the politics of China, debt and international trade?

 

[Ngimanene na Muchere]

Karai was just an example. There are many more. Study at the bigger picture. Have you looked at Kenya's manufacturing data from 2013 to date? Compare it with the economic growth from 2013 to date and you will note similarities.

You asked for a bottom up model, and I asked you to look at Nyamakima ..... And recall why they were so angry with Uhuru when their goods were impounded. It`s the small guys wameshikana wajaze container and split cbm bill amongst themselves to get goods more cheaply

 

[bigDog]

Hii ni upussy, si niliuliza wakati mlikuwa mnalia BBI aaaah eeeeh iiiiiih na @bigDog kwa nini zile vitu mzuri haziwezi pelekwa parliament kama HELB, tax break nikaambiwo uliza mkubwa aaaah ooooh eeeeeh na uliona parliament walikataa mambo ya reducing HELB interest rates, sembuse 7 year tax break ndio wangeadopt? On a serious note, no one ever answered this. So get off your high horse of being an objective voter and roll in the mud

Unasema Nini? Sielewi.

 

[Anglututu]

Yes, because there`s no way we can compete on scale with Chinese manf. Give that business man/ lady a conducive environment for them to do what they do best. Give the light industries a conducive environment for them to access their raw materials and do their manf

Agreed, even EU countries saw the China manufacturer as a potential killer to their jobs and blocked ready imports from China.
Problem in KE, you can buy off the govt and push your agenda. Only patriotism left in KE is worn on people wrists in the form of bracelets.

 

[bigDog]

You asked for a bottom up model, and I asked you to look at Nyamakima ..... And recall why they were so angry with Uhuru when their goods were impounded. It`s the small guys wameshikana wajaze container and split cbm bill amongst themselves to get goods more cheaply

You are oversimplifying Nyamakima issues. Some of them were importing substandard goods and others were not even paying taxes.

 

[bigDog]

@Ngimanene na Muchere, what is your PERSONAL understanding of this Ruto model. Explain to me like I'm a 5 year old.

 

[Ngimanene na Muchere]

You are oversimplifying Nyamakima issues. Some of them were importing substandard goods and others were not even paying taxes.

Agree, but you look at Nyamakima you can get the overall concept of bottom up

 

[Ngimanene na Muchere]

@Ngimanene na Muchere, what is your PERSONAL understanding of this Ruto model. Explain to me like I'm a 5 year old.

I just told you look at downtown and how it operates, better yet I`ll challenge you to go there if you have friends and ask how they do business, and you`ll understand why this model is making sense to them. They don`t bite.

 

[dabu]

Anyway, to answer your question, I support Martha Karua. She hasn't come out yet with her economic model.

I am supporting Sugoi not because of Bottom up or any of that shiet, but to show the middle finger to Katundu Mutesa II.

However, from a naive point of view, I think the hustler narrative maybe a cure for our tribal politics. I say this because every five years we are told that we must have one of our own at the top so that we benefit. It is happening right now with kina MK na Kabogo coming out and telling us BS. Now if Hustler would treat each hustler equally, what need would we have of akina Melon, Madvd et al?

 

[Okiya]

You asked for a bottom up model, and I asked you to look at Nyamakima ..... And recall why they were so angry with Uhuru when their goods were impounded. It`s the small guys wameshikana wajaze container and split cbm bill amongst themselves to get goods more cheaply

Again I ask you to look at the bigger picture which is the Kenyan economy as a whole and not the few Nyamakima traders. The effect of Chinese imports is job losses, reduced taxes, reduced domestic production capacity among others.

 

[Ngimanene na Muchere]

Again I ask you to look at the bigger picture which is the Kenyan economy as a whole and not the few Nyamakima traders. The effect of Chinese imports is job losses, reduced taxes, reduced domestic production capacity among others.

Few compared to who? And Nyamakima is replicated in very many other places in Kenya. And is bottom up opening up the economy to a flood of imports? Hasn`t said so, it`s about the trader and facilitating him in their business, about the farmer and facilitating them in their farms, it`s about facilitating the entrepreneur manf and them having figured out their competitive adv in an open market. Take politics out of core industries like sugar and safeguard them, recall Raila and sister messed up Dominion Farms so much they closed up shop, Mumias Sugar too https://www.pulselive.co.ke/news/po...as-sugar-company-after-details-emerge/vyx0z9k

 

[Anglututu]

If this was in a western country I would take it seriously because it would come with the WHAT and HOW policies.
Since it's in KE, it's just a catch phrase to me.
HOW to implement it if it were true,
1. change policies to encourage small business owners and business people at large. Example Rwanda.
2.block some imports and force them to be produced in KE (how? Ref. to point 1)
3. Kill corruption
4. Increase wages

The more the industries and production done in KE the more the jobs for people.
For point 1,2, 4 to work point 3 has to be strictly adhered to.

In other words, if you kill corruption, this country will work. All these catch phrases will not be needed.

 

[Okiya]

Few compared to who? And Nyamakima is replicated in very many other places in Kenya. And is bottom up opening up the economy to a flood of imports? Hasn`t said so, it`s about the trader and facilitating him in their business, about the farmer and facilitating them in their farms, it`s about facilitating the entrepreneur manf and them having figured out their competitive adv in an open market. Take politics out of core industries like sugar and safeguard them, recall Raila and sister messed up Dominion Farms so much they closed up shop, Mumias Sugar too https://www.pulselive.co.ke/news/po...as-sugar-company-after-details-emerge/vyx0z9k

"Governments have identified the manufacturing sector as the cog that will accelerate economic growth, create employment and alleviate poverty" In short, what governments are saying is sort out manufacturing and money will flow into people's pockets.

Nyamakima businesses were disrupted in 2019. Did the economic issues for all Kenyans start in 2019?

Just because Nyamakima businesses started feeling the economic heat in 2019 doesn't mean that's the same time other Kenyan's started feeling the heat too. Manufacturers were laying off staff and some closing way before.

 

[It's Me Scumbag]

I see you want to nitpick, so let`s do it.....why do countries protect some sectors of their economy and open up others?

What sector has the current and former governments ever protected? The current government that the hustler/survivor is part of. The same governments the monkey trader has been part of?
What makes them think they can bring in a new spin and change the narrative?