Marx had foreseen the current meltdown

[Mwalimu-G]

competition, innovation and efficiency

because the resources are scarce.

 

[Mwalimu-G]

(and also finding new uses for already abundant resources like using the sun to produce electricity).

The abundant resources requires massive investments to be put to use.

 

[Mwalimu-G]

 

[DeepInYourMind]

When you grow cotton and the other guy owns the ginnery, the ginner will pay you just enough to keep you growing the raw material he needs. If you withhold your produce so he pays you a price to make you rich, he moves on to the next producer and you've to sell at throwaway price. There's nothing like cooperation where one wields more power over the other.

This is the essence of capitalism. The market moves the price to its most efficient point. Even the ginnery owner is at the mercy of the textile manufacturer wants it at the most efficient price. The effect is that the final consumers get high quality affordable clothing at the best prices and most people can afford being well clothed, not just the ruling class.

And no one mandates the rewards for the cotton grower. If they find a way to increase their outcome or find a different way to get better rewards, they become better compensated.

 

[Mwalimu-G]

The effect is that the final consumers get high quality affordable clothing at the best prices and most people can afford being well clothed, not just the ruling class.

We have just seen where a China factory makes a bag for $700 only for a Western fashion house to attach the logo badge and sell it to consumers for $5000. The driver of capitalism is greed. And there can be no fairness where greed is the first determinant.

 

[San Dan Glokta]

This is the essence of capitalism. The market moves the price to its most efficient point. Even the ginnery owner is at the mercy of the textile manufacturer wants it at the most efficient price. The effect is that the final consumers get high quality affordable clothing at the best prices and most people can afford being well clothed, not just the ruling class.

And no one mandates the rewards for the cotton grower. If they find a way to increase their outcome or find a different way to get better rewards, they become better compensated.

I get what you’re saying about capitalism driving efficiency, but the real-world impact on small cotton farmers, especially in Africa, is way more complicated.

Take U.S. cotton subsidies, for example. They’ve been flooding the market and driving down global prices, which screws over farmers in places like Benin who don’t get the same support. Some end up in brutal labor situations just to survive.

And the whole “just improve your farming” argument? It doesn’t hold up when farmers lack access to decent tech, financing, or markets. In Tanzania, the local textile industry collapsed, so farmers can’t even add value to their cotto, they’re stuck selling raw product at rock-bottom prices.

Efficiency doesn’t mean fairness. If the system doesn’t fix these gaps, the little guys at the bottom of the supply chain keep getting left behind.

 

[Mwalimu-G]

And the whole “just improve your farming” argument?

You cannot tell a smallholder cotton farmer "to improve his farming" because he has nothing else he can do on his 2.5 acre plot. His capacity cannot enable him to adopt more efficient technology, he cannot expand to improve his economies of scale and, surely, he cannot compete with a large scale farmer whose entire processes are mechanized.

 

[DeepInYourMind]

We have just seen where a China factory makes a bag for $700 only for a Western fashion house to attach the logo badge and sell it to consumers for $5000. The driver of capitalism is greed. And there can be no fairness where greed is the first determinant.

You call it greed, someone else calls it selling at what the consumer is willing to pay. People are not forced to buy luxury brands, they do it willingly because they want to belong to an exclusive club.

Communism on the other hand will have you family survive on a loaf of bread for the entire week, let alone entertain the thought of luxury brands.

 

[Young_Turk]

You call it greed, someone else calls it selling at what the consumer is willing to pay. People are not forced to buy luxury brands, they do it willingly because they want to belong to an exclusive club.

Communism on the other hand will have you family survive on a loaf of bread for the entire week, let alone entertain the thought of luxury brands.

Thats obviously has not been true for 50 years

The key is to take key pillars of communism and allow for capitalism.

The called it communism with Chinese characteristics.

 

[DeepInYourMind]

I get what you’re saying about capitalism driving efficiency, but the real-world impact on small cotton farmers, especially in Africa, is way more complicated.

Take U.S. cotton subsidies, for example. They’ve been flooding the market and driving down global prices, which screws over farmers in places like Benin who don’t get the same support. Some end up in brutal labor situations just to survive.

And the whole “just improve your farming” argument? It doesn’t hold up when farmers lack access to decent tech, financing, or markets. In Tanzania, the local textile industry collapsed, so farmers can’t even add value to their cotto, they’re stuck selling raw product at rock-bottom prices.

Efficiency doesn’t mean fairness. If the system doesn’t fix these gaps, the little guys at the bottom of the supply chain keep getting left behind.

This is now where protectionist policies like the Trump tarrifs come in. Find a way to create a fair balance in trade. A country with decent leaders will fight for economic opportunity for its people. And global trade also needs a balance.

 

[DeepInYourMind]

You cannot tell a smallholder cotton farmer "to improve his farming" because he has nothing else he can do on his 2.5 acre plot. His capacity cannot enable him to adopt more efficient technology, he cannot expand to improve his economies of scale and, surely, he cannot compete with a large scale farmer whose entire processes are mechanized.

Good thing about capitalism is mobility in the market. When a door is closing on an opportunity, there are new opportunities that are always coming up and ready to be exploited.

With communism, you have to wait for inefficient and out of touch central planning to reallocate labour and resources. This is what triggered a famine in Mao's China

 

[DeepInYourMind]

Thats obviously has not been true for 50 years

The key is to take key pillars of communism and allow for capitalism.

The called it communism with Chinese characteristics.

That's a fancy Chinese term for saying let us prosper from capitalism but let us, the select few, the party officials, maintain total political control.

Problem is that the state still interferes with the market to maintain control and results in things like the Evergrande billion dollar collapse.

 

[DeepInYourMind]

Isn't it also funny how China ripped Marxism from Russia and claimed it as their own giving it the fancy term 'Chinese characteristics' ? Right after (in the Mao revolution) they got rid of thousands of years of Chinese heritage?

It was a large brainwashing operation designed to gain control over the Chinese population. I don't think even Russia itself is proud of Marxism

 

[Mwalimu-G]

Communism on the other hand will have you family survive on a loaf of bread for the entire week, let alone entertain the thought of luxury brands.

With communism, you have to wait for inefficient and out of touch central planning to reallocate labour and resources. This is what triggered a famine in Mao's China

At some point certain ideas become old school and are called archaic. Sorry to say but the way you understand communism is archaic.
Tell me one communist country in the world where food is still rationed.
Even in China the kind of administrative bureaucracy you call central planning no longer exists and decision making is by committees at the village, municipality, County, prefecture, provincial and the National. Decisions in a municipality do not have to wait for the prefecture or national decisions, unless in emergencies such as earthquakes where resources at those levels are required.
China recognizes that with a population as big as hers order is important to keep supply chains running, hence what looks to some of us like undue control of the population. But I guess everyone is happy.

 

[DeepInYourMind]

At some point certain ideas become old school and are called archaic. Sorry to say but the way you understand communism is archaic.
Tell me one communist country in the world where food is still rationed.
Even on China the kind of administrative bureaucracy you call central planning no longer exists and decision making is by committees at the village, municipality, County, prefecture, provincial and the National. Decisions in a municipality do not have to wait for the prefecture or national decisions, unless in emergencies such as earthquakes where resources at those levels are required.
China recognizes that with a population as big as hers order is important to keep supply chains running, hence what looks to some of us like undue control of the population. But I guess everyone is happy.

Why do their political elites still use terms like Marxism and communism when it is no longer so?

Why don't they just be honest, and admit they have benefited from capitalism so much that they rose from a dirt poor country into a global power (with America's benevolence)? Because they are afraid they would lose political control over their people.

I'm not anti-Chinese by the way, I appreciate a lot of their technological innovations, they work hard, are smart and tend to find ways to scale technological innovations in an affordable manner. But they are intellectually dishonest by branding themselves communist and claiming to hold Marxist ideals.

 

[Young_Turk]

Isn't it also funny how China ripped Marxism from Russia and claimed it as their own giving it the fancy term 'Chinese characteristics' ? Right after (in the Mao revolution) they got rid of thousands of years of Chinese heritage?

It was a large brainwashing operation designed to gain control over the Chinese population. I don't think even Russia itself is proud of Marxism

Name one communist country that is less prosperous than those in Kenya?

That doesn't have serious sanctions against them.

I'll wait.

Nongwe.

 

[Mwalimu-G]

But they are intellectually dishonest by branding themselves communist and claiming to hold Marxist ideals.

Their governance system is communist ie collegial where those interested in leadership present their thoughts (manifesto) of where they want China to go in the medium term and the long term. The person with the best vision is given the mandate and reports back annually. The checks by the General Assembly ensure the executive stays the course, si kufanya mambo yake Kikasongo or kiTrump.

Once again, their hybrid system has served them well.

 

[DeepInYourMind]

Their governance system is communist ie collegial where those interested in leadership present their thoughts (manifesto) of where they want China to go in the medium term and the long term. The person with the best vision is given the mandate and reports back annually. The checks by the General Assembly ensure the executive stays the course, si kufanya mambo yake Kikasongo or kiTrump.

Once again, their hybrid system has served them well.

Even I can present a system where I present vision to the people (manifesto), get elected by majority, work with elected representatives in parliament and Senate to push this vision. Accountable to our constitution and report back on a daily, weekly or monthly schedule.

I can also call myself communist, can't I?