WHO Guidelines for the Vaccine Passport

mzeiya

Elder Lister
The current flu you have to be tested to know you have it.
Guess what? Guy who made the biggest assertion that it is a mere flu knows that it isn't after he got it and then went ahead to get vaccinated!
The problem is the masses getting exposed while those who conspire are effectively safe. I mean, you can't make this up..
 

Burner

Elder Lister
Hadn’t seen this part.
Because first health is a very private thing. Even people with TB, which is transmissible via air, are not required to have a passport showing they are taking medication.
The current flu you have to be tested to know you have it.
I don’t want to be discriminated based on my health status. Or choices relating to my health.
if I get HIV today, nobody will discriminate against me if I didn’t take medication, I’ll just die.
Having a vaccine passport helps nobody. Why? Coz the vaccine does not prevent transmission, does not prevent infection, it only purportedly reduces the severity of my personal symptoms if I catch the flu.
Yes, health is private. However, the point of a vaccine certificate is not to declare your health status. Its to show that you are less likely to have those particular infectious diseases because you have been vaccinated against them. Countries would like to know there is a minimal risk of you bringing some of these diseases with you. Especially into a population that has never had it or eradicated. Most countries implemented mandatory vaccination programs for infants and because of this you arent asked for your MMR vacvination card for when you were a baby. The assumption is that the vast majority of people in countries got the jabs.

I think the antivaxx movement is slowly going to undo this. The US (and canada if i recall) has been hit with flare ups of measles and mumps in towns that never had it for years and the common factor in them is an increase is Somali immigrants. People coming from a state that had a sketchy or minimal vaccine rollout.

Now, you may disagree with the science of the covid vaccine regarding its efficacy with or without it. However, you are no position to argue against showing a certificate to enter a place (country, school or kiosk) that has taken the opposite position that the vaccine does make a difference. This is the "management reserves the right of entry" sign at the door at Milan and you are standing there shirtless saying the efficacy of shirts in keeping out the cold is not confirmed and you should be let in.
 

Riva

Lister
Guess what? Guy who made the biggest assertion that it is a mere flu knows that it isn't after he got it and then went ahead to get vaccinated!
The problem is the masses getting exposed while those who conspire are effectively safe. I mean, you can't make this up..
But isn’t trump the guy who came up with operation warp speed? To accelerate vaccine deployment last year?
He also caught Covid during campaigns and got vaccinated together with his entire team. He hasn’t told anyone to not get the vaccine, he’s just opposed to the lockdowns etc..
 

Riva

Lister
Its to show that you are less likely to have those particular infectious diseases because you have been vaccinated against them.
Covid vaccines are not preventing infection or transmission. They are preventing severe symptoms for people who catch the flu. This means that everyone can catch or transmit the flu regardless of vaccination status. However, if they are vaccinated they are less likely to have severe symptoms.
 

Riva

Lister
They won't discriminate if you stay at your place. But of you venture out into public space, especially foreign public space, covid being covid and being deadly and all, you have to go by them.
But do you believe this is okay, given that the vaccine neither prevents infection nor transmission…and isn’t even effective in the long term.
 

Burner

Elder Lister
Covid vaccines are not preventing infection or transmission. They are preventing severe symptoms for people who catch the flu. This means that everyone can catch or transmit the flu regardless of vaccination status. However, if they are vaccinated they are less likely to have severe symptoms.
Dude, im not arguing the science of covid vaccine with you coz we could go back and forth exchanging links. And in the end its all irrelevant because we are discussing the policy of the vaccine certificate.
Your stand is that the policy is without merit but your comeback is about the efficacy of the vaccine, which is not a reason at all.

Whereas i am showing you that the policy already has precedent, why it is there and that you already abide by it (if you own a yellow fever cert).
 

Riva

Lister
Your stand is that the policy is without merit but your comeback is about the efficacy of the vaccine, which is not a reason at all.
The policy lacks merit because the vaccine lacks merit, which is because it lacks key qualities that would make mandating it have merit (i.e prevention of transmission and protection from infection).

Anyways the summary of my Position is that anyone with access and wants to get it should get it. It just should not be mandated.
 

Burner

Elder Lister
The policy lacks merit because the vaccine lacks merit, which is because it lacks key qualities that would make mandating it have merit (i.e prevention of transmission and protection from infection).

Anyways the summary of my Position is that anyone with access and wants to get it should get it. It just should not be mandated.
Just to be clear (coz i have a follow up question depending on what your answer is here), you are of the opinion that one should be free to travel with or without a covid vaccine certificate?
 

Riva

Lister
Just to be clear (coz i have a follow up question depending on what your answer is here), you are of the opinion that one should be free to travel with or without a covid vaccine certificate?
Yes every person should be free to travel or do anything with or without the Covid vaccine certificate.

(and pls don’t compare this with yellow fever, I’ve already indicated why I have no problem with the yellow fever vaccine - it’s tested, proven and is a sterilizing vaccine).
 

Burner

Elder Lister
Yes every person should be free to travel or do anything with or without the Covid vaccine certificate.

(and pls don’t compare this with yellow fever, I’ve already indicated why I have no problem with the yellow fever vaccine - it’s tested, proven and is a sterilizing vaccine).
No not a yellow fever comparrison.
My question is this and its a hypothetical:
Assume it is early last year (March) when covid was becoming an issue in europe and north america but Kenya has yet to register any covid cases. The time when kenyans were saying we should stop flights. Imagine the same vaccines are then put out and the covid certificates are a thing.

Would your stand on covid vaccine certificates remain unchanged?
 

Riva

Lister
No not a yellow fever comparrison.
My question is this and its a hypothetical:
Assume it is early last year (March) when covid was becoming an issue in europe and north america but Kenya has yet to register any covid cases. The time when kenyans were saying we should stop flights. Imagine the same vaccines are then put out and the covid certificates are a thing.

Would your stand on covid vaccine certificates remain unchanged?
I still wouldn’t agree with any mandates for a passport pegged on a vaccine developed within less than 3 months of the identification of the virus.
Even without having read material that is currently available on the trials, I would still argue that nobody knows the long term efficacy and safety of the jab.
My disagreement would be based on knowledge that the process of comprehensive studies and bringing a vax to market is typically 5-10 years. Being a conservative, I would argue for freedom to choose to take or not.
Ultimately, people should always have the freedom to make decisions that have an impact on their long term survival and well being.
 

It's Me Scumbag

Elder Lister
Anyways I’m beginning to learn that many people have no interest in critical thought and in thinking ahead in terms of what could go wrong. Skepticism is not ingrained in many peoples minds.

More importantly, I’m beginning to learn that many people prefer communication via memes so that they can ignore the message and laugh at whatever the meme shows 😄. Research and actual reading is not preferred.

Compliance without question for small personal comforts is more preferable.

So here we go with today’s meme 😄

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Do you know how judgemental you sound?
 

Burner

Elder Lister
Ultimately, people should always have the freedom to make decisions that have an impact on their long term survival and well being.
I understand all you have said. But I notice that you keep repeating this last bit in bold in most of your critiques.
You have always had the freedom to to make that decision in so far as it doesnt affect the long term survival and wellbeing of others. And as yet there is no forced mandate for one to take the covid or any vaccine.
However, if you want to do certain things, there are basic requirements. If you want to drive a car on our roads, you need to get a valid DL; if you want to practice medicine, you need to go to medical school and be registered etc all this is regardless of your stance on driving licenses and the medicine curriculum. The same now applies to how the policy of covid vaccine certificates works.

As i said before, while you have a particular stance on the issues of the vaccine itself, there are others who have a different opinion. Administrative powers happen to side with the position that vaccines are safe and there is a reduced chance of contracting and hence spreading covid. In light of this, they want people to move around and access places by showing a vaccine certificate. And in order to protect the long term survival and well being of the people under their charge who do get the shot, they will limit the movement individuals who chose not to take the vaccine.
 

Riva

Lister
People die everyday from anything. I could have died on Saturday in a car crash if the guy had hit me worse than he actually did. Should we give up our freedoms for fear of death….while that’s the ultimate destination

 

Missdee

Lister
People die everyday from anything. I could have died on Saturday in a car crash if the guy had hit me worse than he actually did. Should we give up our freedoms for fear of death….while that’s the ultimate destination

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Freedoms? Does this include freedom to infect other people? I read somewhere that the reason they were able to make the covid vaccine so quickly is beacause there was already research done on SARSfrom previous pandemics .
I understand where you are coming from though, even having been injected you can still carry the disease and you can still infect people
 
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