Nimesoma BBI na nitaipitisha. Here's why

Okiya

Elder Lister
First mimi sijasomewa. Nimejisomea mwenyewe though sijasoma in detail the way lawyer's do

Secondly, no constitution is perfect.

So why will I vote for BBI?

First let's accept our politics divides us along tribes with the major division being along the tribes of Kikuyu/Gema, Luhya, Luo, Kalenjin,Kamba & pastoralists. Everyone wants to feel part of government but currently there is only the position of President & his deputy. In Nigeria its easy for them to rotate because their division is between Christians & Muslims. But here in Kenya we have 42 or so tribes. So even if we do rotation presidency, watu watafikiwa lini? The BBI solves this by expanding the executive to include Prime Minister & his Deputies. To me this is a win. Some will say it's costly which is true but look at the bigger picture of how much our economy gets affected as we approach elections.

Secondly the BBI proposes 7 year tax break being given to youth who start business is good. This will encourage people to start businesses without the monkey of KRA on their backs. The finer details of such proposals will come later.

Thirdly, counties will now get a minimum of 35% from the current 15%. There will also be ward development fund. This will definitely spur growth mashinani.

The BBI also talks tough about corruption. Implementing is another thing all together. But my personal view is that shida ya Kenya is looting. I was impressed with TNA 2013 manifesto on how to deal with corruption & that's why I voted for Uhuruto. The fact that the anti corruption proposals will now be in the constitution and not in a party manifesto is a big step forward Deal with corruption and in 5 years you'll see economic opportunities in plenty.

However, the BBI has some flaws too. We will have too many MPs.

Personally, I give the document a B+.

I will vote for it.

Now let's engage/debate constructively
 

mzeiya

Elder Lister
All those good things in the document don't need a costly and time-wasteful campaign and eventual referendum that might just end in a NO vote to be made into law. They can be passed via acts of Parliament.
As someone said, BBI is a juicy set of mbuzi choma ribs which is tantalizing but dipped in a sauce containing poison. The demerits outweigh the few good things and so, I will not support it, riwe riwaro.

PS ~ #Kivutha22
 

Okiya

Elder Lister
All those good things in the document don't need a costly and time-wasteful campaign and eventual referendum that might just end in a NO vote to be made into law. They can be passed via acts of Parliament.
As someone said, BBI is a juicy set of mbuzi choma ribs which is tantalizing but dipped in a sauce containing poison. The demerits outweigh the few good things and so, I will not support it, riwe riwaro.

PS ~ #Kivutha22
I would like to hear you mention the demerits and the few good things.
 

Okiya

Elder Lister
The good you have outlined perfectly.
I will let the comic below (typos notwithstanding) illustrate why the BBI document is massively flawed
View attachment 24384
So you're relying on a comic to make decision for you that the document isn't good?

Anyway, let me help the comic. With the 7 year tax breaks to youths who start businesses, won't that create employment and eradicate poverty??

Are we tribalists 247 or is it mostly during elections? With the expansion of executive, won't that reduce tribalism??

Is the comic visually impaired that he didnt see the discussion about corruption in the BBI?
 

mzeiya

Elder Lister
With the 7 year tax breaks to youths who start businesses, won't that create employment and eradicate poverty??
Simple solution. Pass an act of Parliament if the will is there. Dangling carrots for our votes is borderline anarchy
With the expansion of executive, won't that reduce tribalism??
It never reduced when the Mkate had to be shared nusunusu by Kibaki/Rao back in the day. Our issues don't stem from representation or lack of thereof but from the abuse of power, corruption, and vested interests by those in authority. What an expanded executive means is just a bloated wage bill yet we just hit the 7,000,000,000,000 in external debt.
.
 

Burner

Elder Lister
First mimi sijasomewa. Nimejisomea mwenyewe though sijasoma in detail the way lawyer's do

Secondly, no constitution is perfect.

So why will I vote for BBI?

First let's accept our politics divides us along tribes with the major division being along the tribes of Kikuyu/Gema, Luhya, Luo, Kalenjin,Kamba & pastoralists. Everyone wants to feel part of government but currently there is only the position of President & his deputy. In Nigeria its easy for them to rotate because their division is between Christians & Muslims. But here in Kenya we have 42 or so tribes. So even if we do rotation presidency, watu watafikiwa lini? The BBI solves this by expanding the executive to include Prime Minister & his Deputies. To me this is a win. Some will say it's costly which is true but look at the bigger picture of how much our economy gets affected as we approach elections.

Secondly the BBI proposes 7 year tax break being given to youth who start business is good. This will encourage people to start businesses without the monkey of KRA on their backs. The finer details of such proposals will come later.

Thirdly, counties will now get a minimum of 35% from the current 15%. There will also be ward development fund. This will definitely spur growth mashinani.

The BBI also talks tough about corruption. Implementing is another thing all together. But my personal view is that shida ya Kenya is looting. I was impressed with TNA 2013 manifesto on how to deal with corruption & that's why I voted for Uhuruto. The fact that the anti corruption proposals will now be in the constitution and not in a party manifesto is a big step forward Deal with corruption and in 5 years you'll see economic opportunities in plenty.

However, the BBI has some flaws too. We will have too many MPs.

Personally, I give the document a B+.

I will vote for it.

Now let's engage/debate constructively
I have not read it. But based on the points you have put down:

  1. What are the measure proposed to ensure that the new posts of PM and whatnot do include other tribes? What is to stop a kikuyu president from sacking his luo PM and the others and proposing a kiuk PM to a parliament/senate that the majority is of his party?
  2. By tax break we mean absolutely no taxes will be paid by the business? Or the business owners? Or is it held in abeyance till 7yrs are over then charged retroactively?
  3. Do we not have bills/laws that deal with corruption? What does BBI propose that isnt currently in place?
  4. What measures are proposed to ensure that the increase in funding to counties actually do the work they are supposed to do instead of being diverted and eaten like we have seen?what will the ward development fund do that the isnt being done or the mechanisms in place aren't doing right now?
 

YoungD

Elder Lister
BBI is a waste of time and resources and the architects are deceitful.
**Much of the recommendations are already in the 2010 constitution but have not been implemented e.g revenue sharing and 2/3 gender rule.
** competitions are all about winning and loosing, so that narrative about winner takes all politics is ill advised.
**Ward development fund already exists (by other names) increasing the amounts is what we should be talking about. But this is just to spice up the report - there are no amounts or timelines proposed.
**Expanding the legislature cannot solve political inequities, it only creates more divisions. Remember the constant fights btwn the vice president and the prime minister??.
**An expanded legislature will increase the burden on tax payers. As it is right now, almost half of the revenue generated by gvnmnt goes to recurrent expenditure.
**7 yr tax break for the youth is a myth. Actually very few(negligible really) business start ups pay taxes.

The document should be thrown in the dustbin together with the 2 drunkards.
 

Okiya

Elder Lister
Simple solution. Pass an act of Parliament if the will is there. Dangling carrots for our votes is borderline anarchy

It never reduced when the Mkate had to be shared nusunusu by Kibaki/Rao back in the day. Our issues don't stem from representation or lack of thereof but from the abuse of power, corruption, and vested interests by those in authority. What an expanded executive means is just a bloated wage bill yet we just hit the 7,000,000,000,000 in external debt.
.
Bloated wage bill is a lie that has been repeated several times. The real issue in Kenya is corruption.

Tribalism of nusu mkate never worked because it was a forced relationship. The partners and their cheering squad argued until 2013. You cannot tell me the tension between Kyuks and Kales was the same in 2013 as it was in 2009. Reason because Uhuruto wasn't a forced relationship.
 

mzeiya

Elder Lister
There is a difference between rape and consensual sex. In both instances sex takes place but in the fast act one party doesn't enjoy it...get my drift.
Yes Mwalim. Let me wait and see how the discussion on this thread proceeds but changing my mind, I don't think I will unless watoe hizo vipengele zakuzibinafsisha wenyewe hao mabwenyenye wenyenchi
 

Montecarlo

Elder Lister
First mimi sijasomewa. Nimejisomea mwenyewe though sijasoma in detail the way lawyer's do

Secondly, no constitution is perfect.

So why will I vote for BBI?

First let's accept our politics divides us along tribes with the major division being along the tribes of Kikuyu/Gema, Luhya, Luo, Kalenjin,Kamba & pastoralists. Everyone wants to feel part of government but currently there is only the position of President & his deputy. In Nigeria its easy for them to rotate because their division is between Christians & Muslims. But here in Kenya we have 42 or so tribes. So even if we do rotation presidency, watu watafikiwa lini? The BBI solves this by expanding the executive to include Prime Minister & his Deputies. To me this is a win. Some will say it's costly which is true but look at the bigger picture of how much our economy gets affected as we approach elections.

Secondly the BBI proposes 7 year tax break being given to youth who start business is good. This will encourage people to start businesses without the monkey of KRA on their backs. The finer details of such proposals will come later.

Thirdly, counties will now get a minimum of 35% from the current 15%. There will also be ward development fund. This will definitely spur growth mashinani.

The BBI also talks tough about corruption. Implementing is another thing all together. But my personal view is that shida ya Kenya is looting. I was impressed with TNA 2013 manifesto on how to deal with corruption & that's why I voted for Uhuruto. The fact that the anti corruption proposals will now be in the constitution and not in a party manifesto is a big step forward Deal with corruption and in 5 years you'll see economic opportunities in plenty.

However, the BBI has some flaws too. We will have too many MPs.

Personally, I give the document a B+.

I will vote for it.

Now let's engage/debate constructively
There's a misconception infecting the African mind. That consistent changes to constitutions are going to improve their lives. Constitutions don't implement themselves. They are implemented by human beings. If the custodians don't care for it even if that constitution is handed down to them by God as was the case with Moses, they'll still grumble.
As to inclusion, the citizens of a country just need to see the PSC employ people based on their education and skill set level while still ensuring that all tribes are hired in proportion to their population in the Central govt.
We don't need to have a women in each and every appointment. If someone doesn't qualify that is it. Period!
As to 7 year tax breaks; who said that all youthful men and women want to be in business? What has the previous youth initiatives positively yielded to warrant such? Why can't our education system be improved and the youth sponsored to attend colleges in Switzerland, Japan, Germany for science and engineering courses so that if they are eventually to start business they'll be competitive initially at a regional level and later at an international level.
As to County funds. Any allocation must be based on the needs of a county not its size. Some counties are huge but the area people want to inhabit is small even in developed nations, take an example of Texas; it is vast but not the entire state is developed. The counties are not proportionate to the size of the country. They need to be reduced to a max of 10.
For an individual who claims to be in the corporate world you are a disappointment. You have seen that if the head of office doesn't care for policies and procedures there's nothing middle level and junior staff can do. The office's atmosphere be ones toxic untill a new sober head of office comes in.
Such a shame.
 

Okiya

Elder Lister
I have not read it. But based on the points you have put down:

  1. What are the measure proposed to ensure that the new posts of PM and whatnot do include other tribes? What is to stop a kikuyu president from sacking his luo PM and the others and proposing a kiuk PM to a parliament/senate that the majority is of his party?
  2. By tax break we mean absolutely no taxes will be paid by the business? Or the business owners? Or is it held in abeyance till 7yrs are over then charged retroactively
On point 1, nothing stops a president from appointing all his tribes people to be PM and deputy PMs. But should we have a rational president, then you can be sure that 5 tribes will be represented at the top level of executive.

On point 2, yes no income taxes to be paid.
 

AU5

Administrator
Staff member
So you're relying on a comic to make decision for you that the document isn't good?

Anyway, let me help the comic. With the 7 year tax breaks to youths who start businesses, won't that create employment and eradicate poverty??

Are we tribalists 247 or is it mostly during elections? With the expansion of executive, won't that reduce tribalism??

Is the comic visually impaired that he didnt see the discussion about corruption in the BBI?

Okiya let's be realistic, Kenya is broke with a million debts, nobody will give any business a 7-year tax break.

Still, on the 7-year tax break, you claim that it's good for the youth, however, where will they get their startup capital from?

We currently have a problem of youths being blacklisted on CRB by loan apps and other apps harassing them with huge interest loans, this clearly shows Youths lack access to credit facilities that they can use to start those businesses.


In short, this is a law that the elite will use to register businesses under their children's names and enjoy tax-free breaks while the real youths still languish in poverty.
 

Okiya

Elder Lister
As to inclusion, the citizens of a country just need to see the PSC employ people based on their education and skill set level while still ensuring that all tribes are hired in proportion to their population in the Central govt.
This is a joke! Do you think mama mboga in the village knows the proportion of tribes in PSC??? Tribal tension in Kenya is mainly because of elections. Slums are now quiet but wait for 2022 you see people moving back home
 
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