Busy Bodies intent on holding Kenya back - Controversial ICT Practitioners bill

kijanamrefu

Elder Lister
Not all IT work has public interest lakini kuna zingine e.g guy incharge of system / data security, guys who do systems audits, very soon guys who will over see AI, those guys should subscribe to a code of ethics and regulator have a whitelist of members.
Shouldn't an attempt be made to regulate such specific areas rather than rope in the entire industry?
 
If the government said you have to hand your daughters over for an annual virginity check every year until they turn 18, some people on this forum would defend it.
 

Montecarlo

Elder Lister
On Wednesday, a contentious ICT Practitioners Bill 2020 went through the final stage – third reading – in the Kenyan Parliament. The Bill now awaits Presidential Assent before it is turned into law.

The bill seeks to establish an ICT Practitioners Institute for training, registration, licensing, practice and setting standards for ICT professionals in Kenya. The proposed Institute will also issue annual licenses to the practitioners at a fee.

Suffice to say, the requirements proposed by the Bill will be a hurdle to many young people wishing to join the profession but do not meet the threshold set by the body. The bill also proposes to introduce an annual licensing fee for the ICT practitioners. This could kill the dreams of young people who want to join the profession but lack money to pay for the annual licenses.



As usual, politicians looking to control any means by which Kenyans can pull themselves out of poverty and make a decent living. The controversial bill was rejected twice before, with the sponsors unable to clearly articulate which problems they want to solve through the bill. Then just when parliament is about to close, it was quickly and silently passed the third time.

Developments in the Kibaki era opened up great opportunities for those in the tech sector but it seems after a while the politicians noticed how lucrative the sector was becoming and started salivating for control. So now they want to place barriers of entry, whereas in other countries, kids are encouraged to get into tech as young as possible so that they can become competitive in the global arena.

If this becomes law, I forsee significant brain drain amongst Kenyan techies as they look for opportunities elsewhere
I want you in your own words to explain to the village how regulating a profession will lead to brain drain or at best loss of livelihoods. As you come up with an answer, please note that Accountant's, Company Secretaries, Lawyers, Judges, Doctors, Nurses, Engineers etc are regulated by their own professional bodies which ensures that they attain the relevant qualifications and experience and that they carry out their affairs in a manner consistent with the Acts that regulate their professions.
Bear in mind too that there would be wisdom within the IT community to push for reforms in the IT curriculums at University levels; they could also push for inclusion of Ethics training in that sector.
While answering, please let the village know, 'who the hell do IT practitioners think they are that they cannot be regulated?'
The government is not aiming at determining the minimum or maximum wage that they should earn; the government is not even after them with respect to tax payments.
They can go to the North Pole if they so wish. Indian IT practitioners will be readily available to offer remote services. Hell! Even International firms have outsourced their IT services to India and will continue to do so.
 
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Denis Young

Elder Lister
They can go to the North Pole if they so wish. Indian IT practitioners will be readily available to offer remote services. Hell! Even International firms have outsourced their IT services to India and will continue to do so.
Jesus Christ!! Do you think the people providing remote IT services from India have degrees?? Gai fafa.
 

CurrentThing

New Lister
I want you in your own words to explain to the village how regulating a profession will lead to brain drain or at best loss of livelihoods. As you come up with an answer, please note that Accountant's, Company Secretaries, Lawyers, Judges, Doctors, Nurses, Engineers etc are regulated by their own professional bodies which ensures that they attain the relevant qualifications and experience and that they carry out their affairs in a manner consistent with the Acts that regulate their professions.
Bear in mind too that there would be wisdom within the IT community to push for reforms in the IT curriculums at University levels; they could also push for inclusion of Ethics training in that sector.
While answering, please let the village know, 'who the hell do IT practitioners think they are that they cannot be regulated?'
The government is not aiming at determining the minimum or maximum wage that they should earn; the government is not even after them with respect to tax payments.
They can go to the North Pole if they so wish. Indian IT practitioners will be readily available to offer remote services. Hell! Even International firms have outsourced their IT services to India and will continue to do so.
I've already presented my thoughts on the matter, it is up to you to argue your points.
 

upepo

Elder Lister
I want you in your own words to explain to the village how regulating a profession will lead to brain drain or at best loss of livelihoods. As you come up with an answer, please note that Accountant's, Company Secretaries, Lawyers, Judges, Doctors, Nurses, Engineers etc are regulated by their own professional bodies which ensures that they attain the relevant qualifications and experience and that they carry out their affairs in a manner consistent with the Acts that regulate their professions.
Bear in mind too that there would be wisdom within the IT community to push for reforms in the IT curriculums at University levels; they could also push for inclusion of Ethics training in that sector.
While answering, please let the village know, 'who the hell do IT practitioners think they are that they cannot be regulated?'
The government is not aiming at determining the minimum or maximum wage that they should earn; the government is not even after them with respect to tax payments.
They can go to the North Pole if they so wish. Indian IT practitioners will be readily available to offer remote services. Hell! Even International firms have outsourced their IT services to India and will continue to do so.
You come across as someone with acutely limited understanding of what IT entails (Packages do not count). The breadth and depth of IT does not allow for the imposition of such arbitrary thresholds. 99% of the people offering IT services in this country have no degrees in the field, and the few with degrees can hardly attain what the market requires. The situation is not much different in other countries across the world. The effect of such requirements would be to lock out skilled individuals from accessing opportunities while rewarding those with papers but no skills. It should be left to the market to decide what it wants to hire. If an employer needs degree holders, get them. But not to dictate who should be hired.

If the quality of government IT services is anything to go by, we ought to know the kind of policies we don't need. And no, nobody needs reforms in the IT curriculum. You are just parroting what you heard parroted by people with little to no exposure. Curricula evolves gradually, choosing only that which is realistically achievable and proven to be useful to reach set objectives. You cannot have curricula absorbing every new trend, because it is expensive to build and very costly to get wrong.
 
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CurrentThing

New Lister
Any profession that has public interest should have some form of regulation, e.g why do you insist that your surgeon/pilot be qualified. The shape and form of which should be agreed by the professionals and the regulator.
Not all IT work has public interest lakini kuna zingine e.g guy incharge of system / data security, guys who do systems audits, very soon guys who will over see AI, those guys should subscribe to a code of ethics and regulator have a whitelist of members.
Sijui much about this bill, but lots of arguements naona zinasema throw it out wholesome which I disagree with
Food handling is of public interest. Would we want to register, accredit and regulate everyone who produces, distributes, processes and prepares food, starting from the farmer to whoever cooks food in your house?
 

CurrentThing

New Lister
Not all IT work has public interest lakini kuna zingine e.g guy incharge of system / data security, guys who do systems audits, very soon guys who will over see AI
You'll find that people in specific roles such as auditing and information security already have some measure of self-regulation, in terms of internationally recognized certifications.

IT is generally non-standard and things evolve very fast. Technologies that are relevant today may be obsolete in 2 or 3 years time. A lot of innovation is happening in real time in AI, trying to regulate that is like crippling yourself in a race.
 

shocks

Elder Lister
Food handling is of public interest. Would we want to register, accredit and regulate everyone who produces, distributes, processes and prepares food,
we already doing it. From KEBS, to food handler medical tests, to regulation of agricultural and food processing inputs..... its there

A lot of innovation is happening in real time in AI, trying to regulate that is like crippling yourself
I already answered
The shape and form of which should be agreed by the professionals and the regulator.
 
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CurrentThing

New Lister
we already doing it. From KEBS, to food handler medical tests, to regulation of agricultural and food processing inputs..... its there
Yes, but as you've mentioned, very specific roles in the food industry. Not blanket on everyone in the industry.
Some specific roles can be regulated, others cannot.
 

CurrentThing

New Lister
The shape and form of which should be agreed by the professionals and the regulator.
You'd first have to identify the professionals you want to regulate. Next step is to engage them appropriately. Not in the manner of this bill that dropped from the sky and has already been rejected several times.

In IT in general, there are too many roles, I wouldn't call most of them professions, because they evolve a lot, and are poorly defined. New roles are forever emerging while others are disappearing. Ask yourself why no other countries have attempted to regulate the entire IT industry. Even the countries that are much further ahead in IT innovation. Nowadays even underage kids in school are making significant advancement in tech.
 

CurrentThing

New Lister
we are on the same page
Then you would agree that the existing bill is very ill-suited. Let them identify which roles they want to regulate, and why it makes sense to do so, with input from people who practice those roles. Not placing a barrier to everyone who wants to get into IT. If say, they want to register forensic experts who can give admissible evidence in court, or those who can set up and maintain government IT systems, by all means let them do so.
 
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