Adam vs Eve, in your own opinion, who do you think was actually the first to be created?

Da Vinci

Elder Lister
Trying to decipher matters of God, the universe with our very limited brains is a fool's errand.
This dismissive gesture will render us inept and lazy! We ought to think for ourselves.

And the word fool reminds me of that famous verse in the bible that says a fool says in their heart there's no god. I think, in complete opposite, this will be the clever one who tries to scratch that surface and does not find God or any evidence of God! In actuality, the fool is the one who says there is god without any evidential proof!
 

SledgeHammer

Senior Lister
Im dont have anything in mind about a god.
Im not the one claiming that a god does or doesnt exist. You are.
That is why i am asking you to define the god you believe in and how you have determined that god exists.
In this case are you optimistic ?
 

SledgeHammer

Senior Lister
This dismissive gesture will render us inept and lazy! We ought to think for ourselves.

And the word fool reminds me of that famous verse in the bible that says a fool says in their heart there's no god. I think, in complete opposite, this will be the clever one who tries to scratch that surface and does not find God or any evidence of God! In actuality, the fool is the one who says there is god without any evidential proof!
So you want us to imagine or think?
 

Aviator

Elder Lister
Lets be clear what you mean by faith. Do you mean belief in the absence of evidence?
Just having a feeling? What?
You have said it.
And note that not all situations require evidence.
Like, do you need evidence that slapping a kid is bad? Does such evidence even exist? Can that be proven empirically?
Whatever makes you know that slapping an innocent kid is bad is the same thing that make me know that my religion is right.
 

Burner

Elder Lister
In this case are you optimistic ?
Optimistic about what? Optimism is a hope for an outcome. But you would have to know that one of the outcomes is possible.
If you are asking if im optimistic about the existence/nonexistence of a god, you have to show me that there is a god first.
 

Burner

Elder Lister
Like, do you need evidence that slapping a kid is bad? Does such evidence even exist? Can that be proven empirically?
Whatever makes you know that slapping an innocent kid is bad is the same thing that make me know that my religion is right.
This is a false equivalency to what we are discussing. And yes, the empirical evidence exists. We can tell if the child is crying, we can ask them on a scale of 1 to 10 how much the pain is, is the child bleeding or has a welt, the trauma of the child in their approach to you thereafter. There are all manner of metrics.
As for what makes it wrong? That deals with morality and not faith as you have defined it.

But since you say faith is belief in the absence of evidence, where else would you use such a tool?
When would you believe in an assertion without someone giving evidence. And it would lead me back to the question i asked in the beginning. All religions would have to be true for you if you use faith. You would have to believe and not believe in the trinity, you would have to believe there is only one true god but also in all the other gods ever proposed.

You are making a special exemption for your bible that you cannot explain.
This is called Special Pleading.
 

SledgeHammer

Senior Lister
Optimistic about what? Optimism is a hope for an outcome. But you would have to know that one of the outcomes is possible.
If you are asking if im optimistic about the existence/nonexistence of a god, you have to show me that there is a god first.
So are you optimistic about God coming to your life or not?
 

Aviator

Elder Lister
All religions would have to be true for you if you use faith. You would have to believe and not believe in the trinity, you would have to believe there is only one true god but also in all the other gods ever proposed.
You are very right here.
I have never said that my religion is the only true one.
I told you earlier that I read almost every religious book I come across.

As for what makes it wrong? That deals with morality and not faith as you have defined it.
Is morality measurable empirically? Of course no. It is determined by nonscientific factors. FYI, staying naked outside in the sun is healthy and can be proven scientifically with evidence, but is it moral? Same with kusafisha macho.

This is a false equivalency to what we are discussing. And yes, the empirical evidence exists. We can tell if the child is crying, we can ask them on a scale of 1 to 10 how much the pain is, is the child bleeding or has a welt, the trauma of the child in their approach to you thereafter. There are all manner of metrics.
You missed my point. I wasn't asking if it hurts or not. I asked if it is right or wrong.
Think of it, what makes one thing right/good and another wrong/bad? You agree morals are one thing. I want to tell you another. Culture. And then another. Religion. There may be other considerations.
 

Jug

Elder Lister
Had a heated discussion with my friends the other day on matters religion let me just say we never came to a conclusion, let people believe in what they want hapana lazimisha watu to believe in your beliefs.
 

Clemens

Elder Lister
I believe we're Men-God, he created us in his own image and gave us freewill, why throttle your freewill using old books that were written for the ancient Semitic people?
 

Burner

Elder Lister
You are very right here.
I have never said that my religion is the only true one.
I told you earlier that I read almost every religious book I come across.
But if you are using faith in the reading of all these religious texts to determine truth, how is it useful especially where the religions are in direct opposition to each other? And as a tool how are you using it to know that some are true others are not?
Think of it, what makes one thing right/good and another wrong/bad? You agree morals are one thing. I want to tell you another. Culture. And then another. Religion. There may be other considerations.
I would agree some people base morals on some theistic belief, but this does not prove the existence of a deity. Attributing moral beliefs to a deity common place.
 

Da Vinci

Elder Lister
Religions exist because we would rather have wrong answers than no answers at all. Tragedy is that the lazy ones, and these are the vast majority, never mind to question and independently investigate with the intent of verifying and confirming the answers that we have been given no matter how ridiculously implausible they might sound. Worse, we even resist to hear any alternative arguments and even go as far as stigmatising those who oppose the religious point of view!
 
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