#RejectFinanceBill2024

wrongturn said:
in your opinion what are the quick wins that the government needs to do to spur? Because you seems to be dismissing everything as inconsequential , only list the quick wins
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We are already experiencing the benefits of the quick wins. There is a reason agriculture was targeted under Kibaki and now under Ruto. There the impact is almost immediate. The results can be seen in the inflation figures for a high of 9% to 4.6% this year.

But now post the dropping of the finance bill, what would I do to achieve quick wins? Things that are in the power of the president. I would shut down every program that takes money out of people's pay slips. I am ending NHIF or at least downscaling it. I am ending the housing program as well.

Next I am doing the following:
- I am ending CDF and allocating that money to counties.
- I am not funding any non-essential offices in the executive.
- I am cutting non-essential budgets to the Executive, Judiciary and legislature. (Food, Travel, Retreats etc.) We are staying in the country. Travel at your own cost.
- I am digitizing all payments for National government services. All those who are resisting will be fired immediately.
- I am freezing salary increments.

All this money will go to funding essential government programs in agriculture, education and healthcare. By stimulating the economy in that way, over time the ordinary revenue will increase and instead of increasing the budget, this money will be used to pay debts.

That is the ideal scenario but I am sure the situation is furthest from ideal. The debt payments are far too many for organic growth without an external stimulus i,e borrowing.
 
Mwalimu-G said:
So like I said some time in the past we shouldn't expect anything until 2028 or what are you saying?
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I said it back then. If you were expecting a quick turn around, you were living in denial. Granted, it doesn't help when you see people donating tens of millions in churches and people like Omanga showing off expensive cars. I just don't know how you expect the president to police how MPs and senators use social media. Didn't a senator just come out and say they will hire goons to fight Gen Z? What do you expect the president to do about that?

I can't tell you what to expect now because I don't know what will happen with the supplementary budget but with the status quo you can forget about the concessional IMF and World Bank money that has been keeping our heads above the water. It means we will have to go the expensive debt and shorter repayment window route. That can will be kicked down the road and it will find your GEN Z president in 2027. Hopefully he will have ended corruption so he can find the money to pay the debt.
 
Denis Young said:
We are already experiencing the benefits of the quick wins. There is a reason agriculture was targeted under Kibaki and now under Ruto. There the impact is almost immediate. The results can be seen in the inflation figures for a high of 9% to 4.6% this year.

But now post the dropping of the finance bill, what would I do to achieve quick wins? Things that are in the power of the president. I would shut down every program that takes money out of people's pay slips. I am ending NHIF or at least downscaling it. I am ending the housing program as well.

Next I am doing the following:
- I am ending CDF and allocating that money to counties.
- I am not funding any non-essential offices in the executive.
- I am cutting non-essential budgets to the Executive, Judiciary and legislature. (Food, Travel, Retreats etc.) We are staying in the country. Travel at your own cost.
- I am digitizing all payments for National government services. All those who are resisting will be fired immediately.
- I am freezing salary increments.

All this money will go to funding essential government programs in agriculture, education and healthcare. By stimulating the economy in that way, over time the ordinary revenue will increase and instead of increasing the budget, this money will be used to pay debts.

That is the ideal scenario but I am sure the situation is furthest from ideal. The debt payments are far too many for organic growth without an external stimulus i,e borrowing.
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But...everyone is saying as the president he needs to do something to inspire hope.


 
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Denis Young said:
Easy access to capital: The reality is the interest rates are high not only in Kenya but the world over. Specifically in Kenya, interest rates were raised to encourage more inflow of FX. Dollars were flowing out once the FED raised rates, which strengthened the dollar and weakened the shilling which causes other problems. Those macros don't change overnight.
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Many investors left kenya specifically citing unfavourable business conditions. Blackrock of all corporations famously left after only 3 months. So many local businesses closed down after the 2023 finance act as business became unprofitable, meaning more unemployment. And what did last years' act result in, even less tax being collected. If perhaps the business environment had been improved through less taxes, less regulatory requirements and less energy costs, the govt could have likely collected even more tax by expanding the tax base. Many foreign investors are interested in the kenyan market, but politicians usually act as gatekeepers so that they get their cut, in exchange for navigating the corrupt bureacracy.


Denis Young said:
Corruption: Saying 'end corruption' is easy but there is a reason why it never happens. They themselves are guilty of it and they will never prosecute themselves. Even if we say we hang corrupt people, the courts will tell you that is null and void, againsts human rights and the 2010 constitution. We know the song.
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As genZ have shown us, when there's pressure, things change. It all starts with the electorate. If they reject corrupt politicians at the ballot, corruption will reduce. I'm seeing an increase in number of people begging the likes of Okiya Omtata to start campaigning for presidency they are ready to contribute funds and volunteer for mobilization. Good signs..

Denis Young said:
Export of labour: Short term vs long term. Where are the jobs to absorb more than 3M jobless Kenyans? When has Kenya generated that many jobs? The short term opportunity is to export that labour, and in turn that labour brings back FX strengthening the shilling. It is common sense. We do not have a shortage of graduates. Those who will be here when the country is industrialized are the ones who will get the jobs.
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But look at how they present it. It's like that's the primary policy when it comes to providing employment opportunities to the youth. Only a drop in the ocean of kenyan youth can be employed abroad, or employed via the housing projects, or via the ICT centers being floated. Many more will benefit from quality employment opportunities locally through self-employment or local and foreign investment. That should be prioritized over labour migration. Why should your sisters and daughters educated to university opt to become house maids in the middle east because that's the best option they have?
 
zapp_brannigan said:
How I wish the President would change his stand and move to the side of the wananchi . There is so much he can do that would win back the hearts of the citizens ,I included .
Cars and houses for MPs and CS's ,sitting allowances etc .We have to start from somewhere.The amount might seem small compared to the budget figures but the same can make a very big change somewhere in the republic .
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@Othello told us that the political class invested billions to get elected and now need to reward themselves, meaning they would feel betrayed if the president abandoned them. Where did these billions invested go to? They should have instead invested the billions in the market and get legitimate profits, while creating employment in the process. Or they don't trust the economy they want to be leaders in?
 
wrongturn said:
But...everyone is saying as the president he needs to do something to inspire hope.


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I am sorry to say, but that speech is 90% nonsense. That speech in itself should finish with, I resign the presidency! Who would trust a president who has admitted to be incompetent?

Besides that, I keep telling you and everyone else who cares to listen, people need to realize and appreciate the stark reality of where we are. It seems none of you have. I spotted this on Twitter. Maybe that will sober some of you up.

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Notice that section they talk about negotiating with bond holders and about a hair cut. If you hear such noise coming from the executive any time soon, I beg you to go withdraw all your cash in the bank and put it under the mattress. If you are lucky enough the banks won't have instituted withdrawal limits by then.

Ya'll didn't appreciate the economic plan that has slowly improved the cost of food, fuel, reduced inflation, and strengthened the shilling all without subsidies. No! You wanted the president to return the price of fuel to where Uhuru left it (with subsidies), the price of electricity to where Uhuru left it (with subsidies), all in under 2 years.

In all honesty, time for hope is over. It is time to accept reality. And that is what we will all do!
 
Denis Young said:
I am sorry to say, but that speech is 90% nonsense. That speech in itself should finish with, I resign the presidency! Who would trust a president who has admitted to be incompetent?

Besides that, I keep telling you and everyone else who cares to listen, people need to realize and appreciate the stark reality of where we are. It seems none of you have. I spotted this on Twitter. Maybe that will sober some of you up.

View attachment 97122
Notice that section they talk about negotiating with bond holders and about a hair cut. If you hear such noise coming from the executive any time soon, I beg you to go withdraw all your cash in the bank and put it under the mattress. If you are lucky enough the banks won't have instituted withdrawal limits by then.

Ya'll didn't appreciate the economic plan that has slowly improved the cost of food, fuel, reduced inflation, and strengthened the shilling all without subsidies. No! You wanted the president to return the price of fuel to where Uhuru left it (with subsidies), the price of electricity to where Uhuru left it (with subsidies), all in under 2 years.

In all honesty, time for hope is over. It is time to accept reality. And that is what we will all do!
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You try to be too clever yet everyone says there's wastage in government. If this is one person,now piga hesabu to everyone for 1 year including governors and their deputies who must visit Nairobi. Also parastatals heads or hods, cses,uses and advisors.
There was one who was Infront of me and I saw a balance of 180kplus

 
wrongturn said:
You try to be too clever yet everyone says there's wastage in government. If this is one person,now piga hesabu to everyone for 1 year including governors and their deputies who must visit Nairobi. Also parastatals heads or hods, cses,uses and advisors.
There was one who was Infront of me and I saw a balance of 180kplus

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I am not trying to be clever, you just can't process what I am telling you.
Wewe unaona tu state officers. You have not even thought about the civil service where the bulk of corruption takes place. That is why even if they fire the top brass and bring new people the corruption and inefficiencies still continue.
You think that the president will just turn a key and corruption will end. Even if he miraculously does it in the executive and legislature, how will he fix corruption in the Judiciary where all the cases go?
 
Denis Young said:
I am not trying to be clever, you just can't process what I am telling you.
Wewe unaona tu state officers. You have not even thought about the civil service where the bulk of corruption takes place. That is why even if they fire the top brass and bring new people the corruption and inefficiencies still continue.
You think that the president will just turn a key and corruption will end. Even if he miraculously does it in the executive and legislature, how will he fix corruption in the Judiciary where all the cases go?
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Boss, kila mtu anasema we have to start from somewhere, kila mtu anajua sio rahisi,kutakua na push backs. It's not a one day fight or even an year but we have to start. And the buck stops with the president. Even Singapore didn't just grow from the blues but they started from somewhere.

Right now the public is demanding accountability ,if ruto kicks start it by firing corrupt top officials, the public will start also by holding to account the small fish in immigration delaying passport issuance.
A good example is below just from public pressure,now it's either they change or that factory is doomed.
So stop over thinking, we need action.



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DeepInYourMind said:
@Othello told us that the political class invested billions to get elected and now need to reward themselves, meaning they would feel betrayed if the president abandoned them. Where did these billions invested go to? They should have instead invested the billions in the market and get legitimate profits, while creating employment in the process. Or they don't trust the economy they want to be leaders in?
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It is a fact. If all stealing loopholes are sealed, even the president will resign, coz the money is too little compared to what he used to get that seat
 
wrongturn said:
Boss, kila mtu anasema we have to start from somewhere, kila mtu anajua sio rahisi,kutakua na push backs. It's not a one day fight or even an year but we have to start. And the buck stops with the president. Even Singapore didn't just grow from the blues but they started from somewhere.

Right now the public is demanding accountability ,if ruto kicks start it by firing corrupt top officials, the public will start also by holding to account the small fish in immigration delaying passport issuance.
A good example is below just from public pressure,now it's either they change or that factory is doomed.
So stop over thinking, we need action.



View attachment 97125View attachment 97126
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Exactly! Its not a one day fight. Corruption is ingrained in our very society and it is during these kind of inflection points that the societal consciousness is changed. I said it before, that was the biggest win of these protests.

Even with this case with KTDA, does the president have the power to fire the guy who was elected? That is why political interference in these elections is frowned upon. That is where we come in.

I keep giving the example of Babu Owino. The courts failed but we the people also failed.

Also, people love giving the example of Singapore. The president was a dictator to begin with. I would argue it was how they managed to change so quickly. Discipline was ingrained into their National psyche. That will never happen in Kenya. Ours will be a 20-50 year process of grinding rocks until we smooth each other out.
 
Denis Young said:
I am sorry to say, but that speech is 90% nonsense. That speech in itself should finish with, I resign the presidency! Who would trust a president who has admitted to be incompetent?

Besides that, I keep telling you and everyone else who cares to listen, people need to realize and appreciate the stark reality of where we are. It seems none of you have. I spotted this on Twitter. Maybe that will sober some of you up.

View attachment 97122
Notice that section they talk about negotiating with bond holders and about a hair cut. If you hear such noise coming from the executive any time soon, I beg you to go withdraw all your cash in the bank and put it under the mattress. If you are lucky enough the banks won't have instituted withdrawal limits by then.

Ya'll didn't appreciate the economic plan that has slowly improved the cost of food, fuel, reduced inflation, and strengthened the shilling all without subsidies. No! You wanted the president to return the price of fuel to where Uhuru left it (with subsidies), the price of electricity to where Uhuru left it (with subsidies), all in under 2 years.

In all honesty, time for hope is over. It is time to accept reality. And that is what we will all do!
Click to expand...
The government needs to be cut down significantly and ruto should take it as a challenge...it has gotten to a point where he cannot tax any more the cow is dry. Mismanagement is the problem, for example why did he go ahead and sign the appropriations bill? Isnt that some sought of high level recklessness?
 
The.Black.Templar said:
The government needs to be cut down significantly and ruto should take it as a challenge...it has gotten to a point where he cannot tax any more the cow is dry. Mismanagement is the problem, for example why did he go ahead and sign the appropriations bill? Isnt that some sought of high level recklessness?
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Failing to sign the appropriations bill before its set deadline would precipitate a constitutional crisis in the new financial year. Unlike the finance bill, where we can continue with the previous finance act 2023/2024, you can't continue with the old appropriations act.

However, it can be amended. Which is what is going to happen after recess.
 
Denis Young said:
Which is what is going to happen after recess.
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Now is not the time to go for recess .The Senate seems to read the mood and I appreciate the steps they have made today .At least they are telling the relevant bodies what the demonstrators have been saying all along .For instance Unconstitutional offices need to be done away with asap . The executive and MPs are dead silent on what the citizens have been telling them .
 
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