Admin. Why?

Aviator said:
This is the greatest lie that is used to discriminate against gays.
Get some time and look at this.

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JazzMan said:
A mzungu publication purporting to know about African societies, the very same mzungu pushing the alphabet nonsense agenda for their own benefit?

No, thank you. I'm not that mentally colonised.
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Ha ha. Hata hujasoma hiyo link.

@Aviator, weka link vizuri. It resolves to an image.
 
Jug said:
Sinilikuwa hapo nitibiwe mbona niaanze kuchambua chambua orientation ya watu? for your information i was in the same class with a lele but we never treated her differently for who she was
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That is agreable. You dont lose anything by treating her as any other human being should be treated.
 
JazzMan said:
A mzungu publication purporting to know about African societies, the very same mzungu pushing the alphabet nonsense agenda for their own benefit?

No, thank you. I'm not that mentally colonised. They should first answer why the term shoga is considered a huge insult before I can believe anything they say.
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If the research was done by an African, they would have found out the same thing. That homosexuality is very much African.
Christianity, on the other hand, is totally unafrican.
 
JazzMan said:
Exactly, siwezi soma kitu sio objective from a people who are well known for brutalising the societies they colonised, for the express purpose of making money.
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How did you know it's not objective? You did not read it!

Can we say you have a confirmation bias? That you can only read material that supports your world view?

Can we also say you are approaching this issue with a closed mind. That you don't want change your mind at all.
 
Aviator said:
If the research was done by an African, they would have found out the same thing. That homosexuality is very much African.
Christianity, on the other hand, is totally unafrican.
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Homosexuality existed, yes, was it accepted? Absolutely not! That is why terms like shoga are derogatory.

Christianity is very much African. The first Christian nation on earth was African. There are several Africans in the Bible, and they weren't slaves. The current brand of Christianity is what is not African.
 
bigDog said:
How did you know it's not objective? You did not read it!

Can we say you have a confirmation bias? That you can only read material that supports your world view?

Can we also say you are approaching this issue with a closed mind. That you don't want change your mind at all.
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I clearly posted my reasons but as duly noted, you like shifting goal posts.

The Guardian and other british publications cannot be objective to Africans in any way, shape or form. They have always posted racially biased and negative news on Africa to support their racial bigotry, why should this one suddenly be objective?

I do have an open mind on many other issues, but I'm never going to change my mind on homosexuality. Once I compromise my moral standards, what stops me from descending into chaos? Already those alphabet miscreants are trying to sanitise paedophiles. I'm not going down that path.
 
JazzMan said:
Homosexuality existed, yes, was it accepted? Absolutely not! That is why terms like shoga are derogatory.

Christianity is very much African. The first Christian nation on earth was African. There are several Africans in the Bible, and they weren't slaves. The current brand of Christianity is what is not African.
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Shoga simply means gay
It became derogatory when people developed negative attitudes towards gays
And it isn't the only word that has become derogatory over time.
 
JazzMan said:
I clearly posted my reasons but as duly noted, you like shifting goal posts.

The Guardian and other british publications cannot be objective to Africans in any way, shape or form. They have always posted racially biased and negative news on Africa to support their racial bigotry, why should this one suddenly be objective?

I do have an open mind on many other issues, but I'm never going to change my mind on homosexuality. Once I compromise my moral standards, what stops me from descending into chaos? Already those alphabet miscreants are trying to sanitise paedophiles. I'm not going down that path.
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I think we are getting somewhere. You are saying you are not willing to change your mind about this issue. I respect that and I shall not insist that you do.

However, I disagree with your approach. You are very rigid and unwilling to look at evidence that does not support your position. You are biased.

I invite you to have a look at this image.


0_A0dKZE36_X6vC1yf.jpg
 
Aviator said:
Shoga simply means gay
It became derogatory when people developed negative attitudes towards gays
And it isn't the only word that has become derogatory over time.
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Kiswahili, unlike English, has not undergone a rapid shift in the meanings of terms. The term shoga was used by females to refer to their close female friends, but was later also applied as a derogatory term for gay people.

This indicates homosexual acts came to light long after the word was in existence in an already robust and thriving society, which means the right attitude (disgust and condenscension) towards gayism existed long before the term was applied to gays.
 
bigDog said:
I think we are getting somewhere. You are saying you are not willing to change your mind about this issue. I respect that and I shall not insist that you do.

However, I disagree with your approach. You are very rigid and unwilling to look at evidence that does not support your position. You are biased.

I invite you to have a look at this image.


View attachment 48735
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Again, shifting goal posts. The evidence you are presenting comes from a source that is known to project racial and cultural bigotry towards Africans. You did not answer my question. Why would they suddenly be objective towards Africans?
 
JazzMan said:
Kiswahili, unlike English, has not undergone a rapid shift in the meanings of terms. The term shoga was used by females to refer to their close female friends, but was later also applied as a derogatory term for gay people.

This indicates homosexual acts came to light long after the word was in existence in an already robust and thriving society, which means the right attitude (disgust and condenscension) towards gayism existed long before the term was applied to gays.
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In Kikuyu, there's a list of prescribed punishments for various crimes. Like banishment for killing someone accidentally, death if intentional, whipping for rape, death for stealing or witchcraft, etc
We do not have a punishment for homosexuality. Meaning it was either ignored or tolerated.
 
JazzMan said:
Again, shifting goal posts. The evidence you are presenting comes from a source that is known to project racial and cultural bigotry towards Africans. You did not answer my question. Why would they suddenly be objective towards Africans?
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Are you willing to consider any other sources? Can you read any material that proves that gays exist in the natural world. Im addressing your rigidity on this issue.
 
Aviator said:
In Kikuyu, there's a list of prescribed punishments for various crimes. Like banishment for killing someone accidentally, death if intentional, whipping for rape, death for stealing or witchcraft, etc
We do not have a punishment for homosexuality. Meaning it was either ignored or tolerated.
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It could also mean, no one dared engage in that nonsense, therefore no punishment was necessary. If it was ignored or tolerated, there would have been a word, practice or custom around it.
 
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